Basic saltwater aquarium set-up question's

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I've got a 85 gallon tank and a 30 gallon sump/refugium. The drain line is 1 1/4" and the return is 3/4". How do you calculate for the return pump back into the display tank. I've read 10x and some quote greater if their are other life other than fish. I was planning on getting a Mag Drive Supreme 12. Is this to much ? I understand that their is a balance between flow and contact time in the sump/refugium? I would ask anyone's opinion on having a power head in the sump / left of the refugium and right in the return side just to keep that water moving even more.

Thanks :) Fred
 
A mag 12 would work its always best to get a oversized return pump imo and just install a ball or gatevalve so you can tune it down if you need to.A mag 9.5 would work as well.
 
A mag 12 would work its always best to get a oversized return pump imo and just install a ball or gatevalve so you can tune it down if you need to.A mag 9.5 would work as well.
Agreed. You'll need to T off the return line going bcak to the Sump using a ball valve to fine tune the return. You want the return right under what the overflow can handle. 5-6 times your DT water volume going through your sump is normal.
You can use a power head in the sump, I use one myself.
 
O.K. so by installing a ball valve on the drain side to control the flow rate into the sump. This will control the flow through the sump and in essence control contact time and then with the return you use another ball valve to control the output ? I think I understand. Is their anyway to quantify the actual turn over or flow rate. Is flow rate and Turnover describing the same thing ?
 
Never return flow back to the sump. This actually makes the pump work harder, create more heat and draw more power since it has to pump all that water you are wasting plus what goes to the display. Very very old technology not used much anymore now that we can monitor power and flows easily.
Instead, install a ball or gate valve inline on the discharge side of the pump and throttle the flow to match your needs. Since centrifugal pumps only draw the power needed for the work at hand and you are requiring less flow, it is drawing less power and creating less heat and does not hurt the pump in any way, in fact on many pumps it puts them in their "sweet spot" and they are more efficient. I know it doesn't make sense but it has to do with hydraulics and centrifugal force and is spelled out in many electrical and hydraulic theories and laws.

A very often used rule of thumb is to provide 3 to 5x your display volume after head loss with your return pump and I lean towards the 5x side. So a return rate of 450-500 GPH at probably 5 or 6 feet of headloss is about right. The Mag 9.5 should fit that but I personally hate Mag pumps due to their higher than normal power consumption, high heat generation and are quite loud. There are better, more efficient and quieter pumps such as an Eheim 1262, Ocean Runner 3500, Octopus 3000 or WaterBlaster HY-3000 that would fit the bill and still have a little extra flow if needed.

Never restrict the overflow! This is a disaster waiting to happen. All it takes is a snail to lodge in there and its all over. Wide open always. You can install a valve for cleaning and maintenance but its really not needed since the standpipe and overflow will be empty when the power is off. The overflow will always balance itself out with the retrun pump if it is sized properly which yours is at 1.25". The retrun pump determines the overflow and return rate all by itself. The flow is listed on every pumps curve or data sheet. Look at the pump you want then scroll down the sheet to the headloss you calculate (often around 5-6 feet including fittings, height from water surface to water surface between the sump and display and line losses) then across to see what flow you can expect.

Turnover usually includes the return pump/overflow GPH plus any powerheads or closed loops you have too so will be much more than the 3-5x the return provides by itself. A turnover of 15-30 or even 40-50x total is very common when you include a couple of 1000+ GPH powerheads like Evolutions, Tunze, WP or MP etc.
 
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O.K. I understand what you're saying. I miss spoke when i said drain and return to sump. I was describing the 1 1/4" drain from the main take into the sump. You're describing that that line should be left to drain naturally with no impedance from the overflow all the way to the sump. The pump that return's water from the sump back to the display tank is what controls flow and contact time. I was not aware that throttling back the pump would decrease flow. I understand the concepts of head pressure and loss due to friction, pipe size, and elbows and fittings. I thought that if you reduced the amount of water coming through the pump by using a ball valve you only increase pressure on the other side of the valve. In essence the pump is working harder ? I will look at those other pumps, thanks for the advice. Question, The position of the backflow preventer and sizing ?
 
When you add a valve and throttle the flow, it reduces the flow which reduces the work the pump must do. It is all explained in Bernoulis Theory and The Laws of Affinity. If we used positive displacement pumps it would be different and you are right work would increase not decrease.

You should never use a check valve in a reef tank. There is no need for one.
Design your return nozzle(s) so it is just slightly below the surface of the display when running. When you shut the return pump off or the power goes off only a very small, very easily calculated amount of water flows back to the sump before the return(s) is exposed to atmosphere and the siphon breaks. You have an air gap, the best, cheapest, most reliable and maintenance free form of backflow prevention there is know to man. We all know water cannot jump uphill so a flood is impossible as long as you provide that amount of freeboard or spare capacity in your sump at all times.
In my case I have a 100G display tank and a 30G sump. My two returns are 3/4" below the water surface and my tank is 60" long and 18" front to back. So, 60x18x.75"=810, 810/231 = 3.5 gallons or 3.5 gallon maximum that can flow back to my 30G sump which is only 1/2 to 2/3 full at all times since that is where my skimmer performs best. I usually have about 10-12 gallons of room always depending on if my ATO has run or not so hiding 3.5 gallons is not an issue and I can sleep soundly at night with no worries.

I don't know what your tank dimensions are but a standard 90 gallon AGA tank is 48" long and 18" front to back. Say your return is 1" below the surface for simplicity. 48x18x1=864, 864/231= 3.74.So a maximum of 3.74 gallons would backflow before your return is exposed to air which stops the siphon and I am confident you have 3 or 4 gallons of room in your sump. Or if you raised the return up to 3/4" below the surface it is only 2.8 gallons. You can play with the numbers yourself.


All pump manufacturers recommend increasing your pipe size if possible to provide lower headloss due to friction and fittings but its not mandatory since many pumps are 3/4" outlet and a 3/4" bulkhead and 3/4" Loc Line flexible tubes are very common. The gain is pretty minimal as long as you keep your elbows and restrictions to a minimum plus in many cases you need to throttle the flow anyway so it hurts nothing.
 
I think a Tunze Silence 1073.040 would work well. They pump up from 80-790gph and a adjustable on their own so you don't have to add another way of adjusting them. They cost a little less than a mag12, there is no need for a mag12 on your tank, IMO. They use more than half what a Mag12 will use and they are quiet. I have a 020 on my tank and even by itself you cannot hear it. And I have to agree 100% with ASDesertRat, there is no reason to EVER use a check valve. They really are more of a pain than they're worth. Aslong you position your loc line or whatever you're using for return and leave enough room in your sump then it shouldn't be an issue.
 
O.K. the check valve is checked off the list, and it makes sense why not to use one and why it's unnecessary. I've got the loc line part's for the return delivered yesterday. That was my very first delivery from BRS !! not much just the return items from loc-line. I'm still working on the stand build and plumbing from sump back to tank. I was planning on doing a two week run in the garage checking for leaks and overall operation. I then plan on moving everything into the living room. Has anyone bought anything of e-bay. I've bought al ot of eBay but never anything for an aquarium.
 
Wherever you are buying the pump from, you will be able to download a spec sheet for the pump that tells you the various flow rates at certain head pressures. Measure the height from where the pump will be to the rim of your DT and look for the closest number on the spec sheet to see how much flow there will be. For example, I wanted 150gph through my sump so I use a Rio 1100 which pumps something like 685gph at 0' head. However, my tank is 42" above the pump, so I use the 4' head pressure number on the spec sheet - which is around 175gph.

Simply look through the spec sheets for the various size pumps corresponding to your head pressure requirements until you find the right numbers. Don't just guess it - if I guessed "I need 10x the gph for the return pump" and got a 1500gph pump, it would overrun my 300gph overflow and would flood my tank. DO THE HOMEWORK AND READ THE SPEC SHEETS!
 
reefing madness, that's a great site !! thanks, very interesting build, that's probably an ideal set-up as it relates to the location backed up to the garage wall.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

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  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

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  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

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