Battle with DINOS

[Rishov]

So I came in to this hobby for around 9 months ,started with a 18inch nano cube with a 15inch sump underneath ,got a bubble Magnus skimmer ,a carbon reactor and some bio media with a mesh filter sock ,for the beginning two months of my hobby I ran into dinos issues by by fluke beat the dinos with a month but after 5-6 months I decidedly to re-scape my rock work and pulled all the rocks out and that triggered the dino bloom slowly and as soon as I placed the new rock work in the dinos naturally took over pearling and bubbling and very smelly to the nose when ever I put hand to the water to scrape the algae manually ,in the mean time I’ve always noticed hight nitrates about 50ppm since the start of my tank by totally 0 or untraceable phosphates and have this nutrient imbalance all along the last 9 months ,I’ve order sodium phosphate from Amazon and used the dosing calculator by Randy Holmes to figure out a dosage quantity to raise the phosphate levels by 0.05ppm now it is just a waiting game till my orders araivr from Amazon by in the mean time I’ve noticed the dinos are tiring into thick mats of hairy clumps all over the rock nearly looking like brown coloured hair algae and all noticing a patch of presumable cyano in one portion of my rocks ,things are looks bad the dinos are already causing couple of zoa frags to die off and only the bigger colonies of corals look healthy and visible unaffected so I want to gather as much as info regarding what kind of dino could it be as I do not have hands on a microscope yet and any additional info regarding this kind and how to fight against this algae would be much appreciated.
here’s a quick clip of my tank’s condition -

 

[Nanojoe]

To truly ID your dinos, getting a microscope will help. There are some ID threads on here and as well as a facebook support group. Most of the treatments use the same methods. Higher nutrients and potentially adding a UV and/or dosing H202. At this point you could almost ID them without with how much info we have out there now a days...

The sand bed looks to be LCA (Large cell Amphidinum) dinos which i dealt with much of last year. Bacteria is your best friend here. Again, to be 100% a microscope will be needed for a positive ID... Do you see them going away at night?

I felt i beat them with bottled bacteria and water changes while doing a thorough sand siphoning. 10% weekly. Some say not to do water changes due to nutrient reduction.
For the rocks i am unsure and unable to help you there.

This is my somewhat in depth thread about my experience along with my method. Its going to take time. Stay positive. you will beat it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-beat-dinoflagellates-i-think.884146/

 

[Rishov]

To truly ID your dinos, getting a microscope will help. There are some ID threads on here and as well as a facebook support group. Most of the treatments use the same methods. Higher nutrients and potentially adding a UV and/or dosing H202. At this point you could almost ID them without with how much info we have out there now a days...

The sand bed looks to be LCA (Large cell Amphidinum) dinos which i dealt with much of last year. Bacteria is your best friend here. Again, to be 100% a microscope will be needed for a positive ID... Do you see them going away at night?

I felt i beat them with bottled bacteria and water changes while doing a thorough sand siphoning. 10% weekly. Some say not to do water changes due to nutrient reduction.
For the rocks i am unsure and unable to help you there.

This is my somewhat in depth thread about my experience along with my method. Its going to take time. Stay positive. you will beat it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-beat-dinoflagellates-i-think.884146/

In my experience I’ve noticed one thing the dinos start from the sand but while adjusting my wave maker when ever the sand gets blown away specially on the rocks the dinos spread like wild fire and yes I do notice a lil bit of dino disappearing here and there at night but not completely , not sure , cause at night everything seems less aggressive ,lol , also to mention at night my rocks look more off on the greener side than in the morning covered in brown,I don’t know if it’s algae or something else cause it seems to be impossible to scrape it out of the rocks unlike it’s brown counter parts that just gets blown in high flow , I’ve been dosing a bacterial product called Aquaforest bio S but didn’t noticed much of a difference but can you list me the bacterial products that helped you out with you fight against dinos ,like any certain reference or dosing method so I’ll add m in conjunction to the sodium phosphate I plan on dosing to increase Po4 and also if like to ask wether you turn off you skimmer while dosing or not ,if yes then how long or so !

 

[Nanojoe]

In my experience I’ve noticed one thing the dinos start from the sand but while adjusting my wave maker when ever the sand gets blown away specially on the rocks the dinos spread like wild fire and yes I do notice a lil bit of dino disappearing here and there at night but not completely , not sure , cause at night everything seems less aggressive ,lol , also to mention at night my rocks look more off on the greener side than in the morning covered in brown,I don’t know if it’s algae or something else cause it seems to be impossible to scrape it out of the rocks unlike it’s brown counter parts that just gets blown in high flow , I’ve been dosing a bacterial product called Aquaforest bio S but didn’t noticed much of a difference but can you list me the bacterial products that helped you out with you fight against dinos ,like any certain reference or dosing method so I’ll add m in conjunction to the sodium phosphate I plan on dosing to increase Po4 and also if like to ask wether you turn off you skimmer while dosing or not ,if yes then how long or so !

The bacteria i use are, Dr Tims Eco - balance, Brightwell Aquatics Microbacter Clean and Microbacter 7.

Each are dosed on different days, Monday - Tuesday - Wednesday. Its recommended to dose bacteria and wait 24 hours before doing a dose of another bacteria. This gives it time to settle in without too much competition.
Skimmer stays off for at least 4 hours.

 

[Rishov]

The bacteria i use are, Dr Tims Eco - balance, Brightwell Aquatics Microbacter Clean and Microbacter 7.

Each are dosed on different days, Monday - Tuesday - Wednesday. Its recommended to dose bacteria and wait 24 hours before doing a dose of another bacteria. This gives it time to settle in without too much competition.
Skimmer stays off for at least 4 hours.

Great ,thanks for the reference, so I’m planning a 3 day black out followed by dosing micro bacter 7 combined with bright well bio fuel , a carbon source that mimics vodka dosing hence specifically reducing nitrates and also a steady carbon source would enable me to come close to the red field ration to balance out carbon to nitrate to po4 ratio , maximising the bacterias advantage on the dinos , along side I’m doing tri Sodium phosphate to elevate my po4 levels as I have an nutrient imbalance,(low po4 and high nitrate ) once the 3 day blacks out completes I’m gona start to dosing doctors Tim’s eco balance ,does it sound all right ,anything else to be added ? And lastly how often and how long should I be doing all the bacterial products over all ?and if I come out of this dinos phase what would be the maintenance dosing schedule sound like ?

 

[Nanojoe]

Great ,thanks for the reference, so I’m planning a 3 day black out followed by dosing micro bacter 7 combined with bright well bio fuel , a carbon source that mimics vodka dosing hence specifically reducing nitrates and also a steady carbon source would enable me to come close to the red field ration to balance out carbon to nitrate to po4 ratio , maximising the bacterias advantage on the dinos , along side I’m doing tri Sodium phosphate to elevate my po4 levels as I have an nutrient imbalance,(low po4 and high nitrate ) once the 3 day blacks out completes I’m gona start to dosing doctors Tim’s eco balance ,does it sound all right ,anything else to be added ? And lastly how often and how long should I be doing all the bacterial products over all ?and if I come out of this dinos phase what would be the maintenance dosing schedule sound like ?

To start I’d avoid the blackout period. I know dr tim recommends doing so, but most reefers who share their experiences say that the stress on the corals is not worth it. More so then not, it doesn’t really work.
There’s opinions behind bacterial dosing after a certain age a tank reaches. Personally, I’d say for as long as your tank is up and running.
We lose bacteria from just basic filtering. So, continuously adding bacteria is a good thing.

My dosing regiment is Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday each day just 1 bacteria product.

the link to my Dino thread explains a lot more.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Great ,thanks for the reference, so I’m planning a 3 day black out followed by dosing micro bacter 7 combined with bright well bio fuel , a carbon source that mimics vodka dosing hence specifically reducing nitrates and also a steady carbon source would enable me to come close to the red field ration to balance out carbon to nitrate to po4 ratio , maximising the bacterias advantage on the dinos , along side I’m doing tri Sodium phosphate to elevate my po4 levels as I have an nutrient imbalance,(low po4 and high nitrate ) once the 3 day blacks out completes I’m gona start to dosing doctors Tim’s eco balance ,does it sound all right ,anything else to be added ? And lastly how often and how long should I be doing all the bacterial products over all ?and if I come out of this dinos phase what would be the maintenance dosing schedule sound like ?

Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[Rishov]

To start I’d avoid the blackout period. I know dr tim recommends doing so, but most reefers who share their experiences say that the stress on the corals is not worth it. More so then not, it doesn’t really work.
There’s opinions behind bacterial dosing after a certain age a tank reaches. Personally, I’d say for as long as your tank is up and running.
We lose bacteria from just basic filtering. So, continuously adding bacteria is a good thing.

My dosing regiment is Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday each day just 1 bacteria product.

the link to my Dino thread explains a lot more.

okay ,now im pretty much clear only thing remaining is wether you keep your filter socks on during dosing bacteria ,like I have a thin mesh material filter sock in my sump will that pose any issue with bacteria dosing specially dosing micro bacter 7 and all ,do I need to remove m for 4 hours just like the skimmer recommendations ?

 

[Rishov]

Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

So do you keep your filer socks intact while dosing bacteria ,do I need to remove m for 4-5 hours prior to dose ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

okay ,now im pretty much clear only thing remaining is wether you keep your filter socks on during dosing bacteria ,like I have a thin mesh material filter sock in my sump will that pose any issue with bacteria dosing specially dosing micro bacter 7 and all ,do I need to remove m for 4 hours just like the skimmer recommendations ?

Yes to entrap flagellates.
blackout does work as Dino is photosynthetic and starving light starves it’s cycle

 

[jmichaelh7]

Rock still looks immature … this happens all the time in young tanks. You are not alone

UV and turkey baster always worked 100% for me

 

[vetteguy53081]

V

So do you keep your filer socks intact while dosing bacteria ,do I need to remove m for 4-5 hours prior to dose ?

Clean socks daily during treatment

 

[SlugSnorter]

So I came in to this hobby for around 9 months ,started with a 18inch nano cube with a 15inch sump underneath ,got a bubble Magnus skimmer ,a carbon reactor and some bio media with a mesh filter sock ,for the beginning two months of my hobby I ran into dinos issues by by fluke beat the dinos with a month but after 5-6 months I decidedly to re-scape my rock work and pulled all the rocks out and that triggered the dino bloom slowly and as soon as I placed the new rock work in the dinos naturally took over pearling and bubbling and very smelly to the nose when ever I put hand to the water to scrape the algae manually ,in the mean time I’ve always noticed hight nitrates about 50ppm since the start of my tank by totally 0 or untraceable phosphates and have this nutrient imbalance all along the last 9 months ,I’ve order sodium phosphate from Amazon and used the dosing calculator by Randy Holmes to figure out a dosage quantity to raise the phosphate levels by 0.05ppm now it is just a waiting game till my orders araivr from Amazon by in the mean time I’ve noticed the dinos are tiring into thick mats of hairy clumps all over the rock nearly looking like brown coloured hair algae and all noticing a patch of presumable cyano in one portion of my rocks ,things are looks bad the dinos are already causing couple of zoa frags to die off and only the bigger colonies of corals look healthy and visible unaffected so I want to gather as much as info regarding what kind of dino could it be as I do not have hands on a microscope yet and any additional info regarding this kind and how to fight against this algae would be much appreciated.
here’s a quick clip of my tank’s condition -

theres good advice in here, but my $0.02

If it disappears at night, get a UV, you will be very happy with the difference

 

[Aiptaisia anemone]

That looks like cyano to me... i dealt with cyano by adding more biomedia... dont ask me how that work it just did, your tank looks new too so... maybe itll go away on its own.

 

[Jdadams]

Don’t do a blackout. Your corals will suffer and who wants to see a tank covered in black plastic or cardboard to keep 100% of the light out. What did it for me was a UV sterilizer turned on at night, feeding more and no water changes till it was gone to get those nutrients up.

 

[Nick Steele]

Imo the green on your rocks are algae and is sign that the tank is still new and immature.

Long thought (skip down if you don’t want to read)
I’ve had two battles with Dino’s in 2 years. One lasted for 7-8 months (tank about a year old when Dino’s set in) but the most recent one (tank at 2 years old)only lasted about a month.

First battle.
I tried the blackout and it just killed some of my sps. Dino’s came back with a vengeance afterwards too. I spent a ton of time researching good numbers for phos and nitrate and I keep dosing to get .08 phos and 5 nitrate. Helped a little but not completely so I added a small UV the my AIO which again seemed to help but not get rid of them. I then did a complete reset of my system which got rid of them. I took out my rocks and rinsed them and got rid of my sandbed.

Tank did well for 5 months or so no Dino’s or anything great growth on sps and lps.

Second Battle.
During the time my tank was doing good I keep dosing phos and nitrate to keep numbers in line and everything seemed fine. I had a cyano bloom that caused Dino’s to come back. I think I let my powerheads get clogged which cause cyano. During this phase I did some more research and found a few articles and some people with experience that where saying that most of the Dino’s issues many hobbyists see is cause by a nutrient imbalance not really the 0/0 phos nitrate you read about.

I found one guy who was talking about how when Dino’s pop up you need to rethink everything you did before Dino’s and what has changed since then. In my case when tank was less then a year old I was feeding half a cube of mysis/spurilina brine or rods food each day but during and after my dino issue I went to only feeding the tank twice a week but dosing for phos and nitrate.

During my second battle I started to feed half a cube every day and also decreased my lighting schedule due to being only lps/zoas now. I also stopped dosing phos and nitrate. I seen a huge reduction in Dino’s over night when I started feed half a cube again. I kept it up and within a week I’m Dino free again!!!

Short thought.
It’s very important to remember in this hobby KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is a very fundamental part of everything and with all the gadgets out there sometimes the simplest thing to do is go back to the basics.

 

[Rishov]

Imo the green on your rocks are algae and is sign that the tank is still new and immature.

Long thought (skip down if you don’t want to read)
I’ve had two battles with Dino’s in 2 years. One lasted for 7-8 months (tank about a year old when Dino’s set in) but the most recent one (tank at 2 years old)only lasted about a month.

First battle.
I tried the blackout and it just killed some of my sps. Dino’s came back with a vengeance afterwards too. I spent a ton of time researching good numbers for phos and nitrate and I keep dosing to get .08 phos and 5 nitrate. Helped a little but not completely so I added a small UV the my AIO which again seemed to help but not get rid of them. I then did a complete reset of my system which got rid of them. I took out my rocks and rinsed them and got rid of my sandbed.

Tank did well for 5 months or so no Dino’s or anything great growth on sps and lps.

Second Battle.
During the time my tank was doing good I keep dosing phos and nitrate to keep numbers in line and everything seemed fine. I had a cyano bloom that caused Dino’s to come back. I think I let my powerheads get clogged which cause cyano. During this phase I did some more research and found a few articles and some people with experience that where saying that most of the Dino’s issues many hobbyists see is cause by a nutrient imbalance not really the 0/0 phos nitrate you read about.

I found one guy who was talking about how when Dino’s pop up you need to rethink everything you did before Dino’s and what has changed since then. In my case when tank was less then a year old I was feeding half a cube of mysis/spurilina brine or rods food each day but during and after my dino issue I went to only feeding the tank twice a week but dosing for phos and nitrate.

During my second battle I started to feed half a cube every day and also decreased my lighting schedule due to being only lps/zoas now. I also stopped dosing phos and nitrate. I seen a huge reduction in Dino’s over night when I started feed half a cube again. I kept it up and within a week I’m Dino free again!!!

Short thought.
It’s very important to remember in this hobby KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is a very fundamental part of everything and with all the gadgets out there sometimes the simplest thing to do is go back to the basics.

Thanks for the lovely Insight seems like this is what it is ,I also made a purchase of a simple microscope to ID the dinos or what ever stuffs is in there and in accordance I’d get an UV ,and it’s true I had an nutrient imbalance since for ever ,I guess Its mostly to do with the kind of food I feed,I feed dry pellets and flakes which I’m probably planning on shifting to frozen soon