Battling with maintaining nutrients and sps pale colors

[Gungo]

After reading a few threads and my personal experience, I have no doubt on how easy it is these days to completely disappear nutrients from your tank... Oversized skimmers, fast-growing macroalgae and low bioload can lead to putting the tank in a situation of starvation and this will affect directly your SPS colors or even kill them. That's my case and I'm trying to find ways to replace the missing nutrients and maintain them to help my corals to color up and be healthy!

My problem started with Ick or Marine vevelt, to be honest, don't know which it was, it just happened really fast.. The disease killed all my fish leaving my tank fishless for 76 days to kill the disease. I did feed frozen food cubes every two days to keep my bacteria and keep the nutrients so my corals won't die and it worked until I started noticing my sps corols going pale and few days after had a Dyno outbreak in my sandbed.. I thought it was related to high nutrients, but did the tests and everything was undetectable! just found out that this type of algae find their perfect environment to grow in this scenario, and assumed that algae were taking away the food of my corals... My actions were not going crazy at all.. just programmed my skimmer to work on 12h schedule, trimmed my chaeto algae a 50% (when trimming noticed a huge part of my chaeto was dying) to help nutrients go up and waited few weeks to see how it goes.. the result was all dynos went from brown to green color and my hermit crabs ate them and completely disappeared but my SPS colors never came back..

Started using amino acids ( Acropower ) because of the good reviews, and I think I have a little over a month using it and no improvement at all. The thing is I have no fish, so my tank is no producing nutrients for my corals to feed with... I just introduced a yellow tang yesterday after quarantining it and my plans are to take it slow with fish, don't want more looses.. but I need nutrients for my corals... And that's why I'm looking for help.

My tank is a 120 gallon total volume, and I do 10-15% water change weekly with tropic marin bio actif salt. looked at Red Sea Colors program as an option, but I don't really know if that's a good idea to replace those missing nutrients with that because at the end of the day I'm not sure the world behind the word "nutrients" but I need to start looking for options because I feel my tank being too sterile!

 

[miPapareef]

Sorry to hear about the losses and struggles.

You can dose phosphate and nitrate directly, and many people who add dino’s do.

I use a BRS doser and Brightwells NeoPhos to keep P level to 0.1. I tried very heavy feeding and reduced skimmer times but it just didn’t raise the level. With the doser I was able to get a stable level. The dinos left and the color on corals returned.

 

[Gungo]

Sorry to hear about the losses and struggles.

You can dose phosphate and nitrate directly, and many people who add dino’s do.

I use a BRS doser and Brightwells NeoPhos to keep P level to 0.1. I tried very heavy feeding and reduced skimmer times but it just didn’t raise the level. With the doser I was able to get a stable level. The dinos left and the color on corals returned.

Yes, is not working for me also leaving the skimmer off and heavy feeding... I will research on NeoPhos, it's super cheap! Thank you.

 

[drawman]

I think dosing PO4 and NO3 will be helpful to your nutrient depleted tank. I've run a fallow period in my SPS tank before too and the acros definitely miss the constant input of fish poop. Now that you have the yellow tang they will get some I would just keep nutrients detectable. Good luck!

 

[Gungo]

What about using Red sea colors program? that won't help?

 

[HB AL]

What about broadcast feeding the tank something like reef roids and phytoplankton, it will raise nutrients and feed the corals.

 

[ZaneTer]

@OP

You are not alone in this situation. Many of us dose. I personally add potassium nitrate and trisodium phosphate. Both of which can very easily be obtained via Amazon.

I am going to take a guess and say that your dinos have not started to recede because when you add amino acids it only contributes to nitrates and not phosphates. Most people have problems with dinos because they bottomed out on PO4.
Be very cautious using trisodium phosphate.... a little goes a very long way.
0.2grams mixed into 100 litres will raise the PO4 level by 2ppm!!!

 

[2Wheelsonly]

After reading a few threads and my personal experience, I have no doubt on how easy it is these days to completely disappear nutrients from your tank... Oversized skimmers, fast-growing macroalgae and low bioload can lead to putting the tank in a situation of starvation and this will affect directly your SPS colors or even kill them. That's my case and I'm trying to find ways to replace the missing nutrients and maintain them to help my corals to color up and be healthy!

My problem started with Ick or Marine vevelt, to be honest, don't know which it was, it just happened really fast.. The disease killed all my fish leaving my tank fishless for 76 days to kill the disease. I did feed frozen food cubes every two days to keep my bacteria and keep the nutrients so my corals won't die and it worked until I started noticing my sps corols going pale and few days after had a Dyno outbreak in my sandbed.. I thought it was related to high nutrients, but did the tests and everything was undetectable! just found out that this type of algae find their perfect environment to grow in this scenario, and assumed that algae were taking away the food of my corals... My actions were not going crazy at all.. just programmed my skimmer to work on 12h schedule, trimmed my chaeto algae a 50% (when trimming noticed a huge part of my chaeto was dying) to help nutrients go up and waited few weeks to see how it goes.. the result was all dynos went from brown to green color and my hermit crabs ate them and completely disappeared but my SPS colors never came back..

Started using amino acids ( Acropower ) because of the good reviews, and I think I have a little over a month using it and no improvement at all. The thing is I have no fish, so my tank is no producing nutrients for my corals to feed with... I just introduced a yellow tang yesterday after quarantining it and my plans are to take it slow with fish, don't want more looses.. but I need nutrients for my corals... And that's why I'm looking for help.

My tank is a 120 gallon total volume, and I do 10-15% water change weekly with tropic marin bio actif salt. looked at Red Sea Colors program as an option, but I don't really know if that's a good idea to replace those missing nutrients with that because at the end of the day I'm not sure the world behind the word "nutrients" but I need to start looking for options because I feel my tank being too sterile!

100% sure you had velvet. Ich does not kill fast, I bet there is a very large percentage of reef tank owners that have ich in their display. If you're not QTing everything (snails included) then you're most likely going to get ich at some point. Velvet is a different story, stuff is the devil! Once you see symptoms it's usually too late and it WILL jump from fish to fish until your tank is dead very quickly.

 

[Gungo]

What about broadcast feeding the tank something like reef roids and phytoplankton, it will raise nutrients and feed the corals.

I just ordered reef roids, thanks for the idea!

100% sure you had velvet. Ich does not kill fast, I bet there is a very large percentage of reef tank owners that have ich in their display. If you're not QTing everything (snails included) then you're most likely going to get ich at some point. Velvet is a different story, stuff is the devil! Once you see symptoms it's usually too late and it WILL jump from fish to fish until your tank is dead very quickly.

Yep, started reading about it and seems like it was velvet... started with white spots, cloudy eyes, heavy breath! Hard lesson learned and started quarantining all my fish. But how to QT snails & inverts? they won't tolerate cupramine at lowest levels!

 

[Gungo]

Sorry to hear about the losses and struggles.

You can dose phosphate and nitrate directly, and many people who add dino’s do.

I use a BRS doser and Brightwells NeoPhos to keep P level to 0.1. I tried very heavy feeding and reduced skimmer times but it just didn’t raise the level. With the doser I was able to get a stable level. The dinos left and the color on corals returned.

Im ordering now NeoPhos, what about NeoNitro for nitrates.. do you have any experience with it?

 

[jda]

What are your actual levels? Do you have good test kits to measure them?

You usually have to be driving N and P low with artificial means to see corals suffer from this alone. Bad lighting and instability are usually more to blame for bad colors than N and P levels.

Keep in mind that it can take some acros months to get their colors back after they had stress. Are they growing? If so, then you have enough of the building blocks.

 

[Gungo]

What are your actual levels? Do you have good test kits to measure them?

You usually have to be driving N and P low with artificial means to see corals suffer from this alone. Bad lighting and instability are usually more to blame for bad colors than N and P levels.

Keep in mind that it can take some acros months to get their colors back after they had stress. Are they growing? If so, then you have enough of the building blocks.

No3= between 0 and 2 (salifert)
PO4= between 0 and 0.03 (salifert)
KH = 7.7-8.1 (Red Sea)
CA = 420-450 (Red Sea)
MG=1250 (Red Sea)
Temp = 78-80

For lighting, I use Ocean Revive T247 40% blues for 10 hours, 15% whites 5 hours.. all my Acropora are getting 200-250 PAR.
For flow, two Maxspect gyres XF230.

Yes, they're growing. My only issue is the color. no RTN or STN so far...

Here is my last frag I purchased 6 weeks ago.



Today:



But my issue with colors look this acro I received in December:



A month after:



colors changed noticeably.. Full Tank shot:

 

[jda]

If you have "color" on Salifert, then you have enough Nitrates... do not sweat this. ...same with Phosphates. Neither of these tests are easy to read, but the N is as good as we have. I would recommend a Hannah Ultra Low Phosphorous Checker for phosphates. It can really help.

If the Hannah shows that your have more than 2 or 3 ppb of phosphorous, then 1). I would just wait for your tank to get more mature or 2). add some T5s. That looks like a young tank and they often just need more time.

Until you know what the P actually is, then I would not dose anything.

 

[Gungo]

@jda Thank you! I will purchase the Hanna phosphate then... This tank has only 4 months, it is an upgrade from a 60-gallon tank that was running for about a year.

 

[imustbenuts]

@jda Thank you! I will purchase the Hanna phosphate then... This tank has only 4 months, it is an upgrade from a 60-gallon tank that was running for about a year.

You don’t want the phosphate, you want the phosphorus checker. There is a calculation to convert it to phosphate but it is supposed to be more accurate.

 

[lolgranny]

Get some fish, feed them, and you’ll have those colors. I think you’re chasing numbers too much. Get on liveaquaria and get a coupl tangs, some wrasses, anthias, blenny, and whatever else you’d like. You don’t need to dose no3 and po4 imo. I don’t think anyone does. With the right balance of fish and feeding you’ll have what you’re looking for.

 

[Gungo]

@imustbenuts Yup, I understand that, thank you!

Get some fish, feed them, and you’ll have those colors. I think you’re chasing numbers too much. Get on liveaquaria and get a coupl tangs, some wrasses, anthias, blenny, and whatever else you’d like. You don’t need to dose no3 and po4 imo. I don’t think anyone does. With the right balance of fish and feeding you’ll have what you’re looking for.

I will for sure! but I will take it slow... I have lost so many fish that I have made the decision of quarantining everything that goes into my display. I don't have a quarantine room to treat 20 fish at the same time, just a 20-gallon std. I am looking for options on what to do to raise nutrients while I stock my tank with healthy fish (again)... If I go and just purchase 10-20 fish and put it on my tank, wondering what will be my success rate? Velvet and Ick will come again and I will need to start the process taking out fish, 76 days fishless, ultra-low nutrients, starving acros and algae outbreaks..

 

[lolgranny]

@imustbenuts Yup, I understand that, thank you!



I will for sure! but I will take it slow... I have lost so many fish that I have made the decision of quarantining everything that goes into my display. I don't have a quarantine room to treat 20 fish at the same time, just a 20-gallon std. I am looking for options on what to do to raise nutrients while I stock my tank with healthy fish (again)... If I go and just purchase 10-20 fish and put it on my tank, wondering what will be my success rate? Velvet and Ick will come again and I will need to start the process taking out fish, 76 days fishless, ultra-low nutrients, starving acros and algae outbreaks..

Qt is definitely smart. I’ve always ordered off LA. They qt. Ive solely purchased from them for over 10 years now. I have a 700g system with over 50 fish, yes I’ve had loss. Mostly to delicate fish or fish that just don’t want to eat, but I’ve never had anything come in with something endangering. Could it happen, yes, but I’m easily a few hundred fish over the year with all the tanks I’ve had.

Am I saying don’t qt, no, but I trust them. Coral on the other hand, I’ll always qt, I don’t trust anyone here as I’ve been burned a few times now.

If I was to say you purchase 10-20 off LA you’ll lose 2-5 but they have a guarantee for 14days? Don’t quote me, but it’s something like that haha! I just got 22 fish and only lost 4 but got refunded as their guarantee. There are also times where I’ve ordered 10 and lost 8, but that’s because they are delicate anthias. You know how it is I’m sure, delicate fish are a pain. But guarantee is there.

You’re on point with everything but the problem is you’re trying to give the coral nutrients by feeding without fish. I dose absolutely nothing to my tank. I have flow and a skimmer. I feed heavily(12cubes a day, another large chunk, and a full sheet or nori) that is IT. People chase too much and try and tweak everything too much.

Just my opinion of course

Mind you I just moved and this tanks only been up 6 months.

 

[lolgranny]

I know I’ve been drinking when I make a response that long, jeesh, sorry! Talk about a rant.

 

[Gungo]

If I was to say you purchase 10-20 off LA you’ll lose 2-5 but they have a guarantee for 14days? Don’t quote me, but it’s something like that haha! I just got 22 fish and only lost 4 but got refunded as their guarantee. There are also times where I’ve ordered 10 and lost 8, but that’s because they are delicate anthias. You know how it is I’m sure, delicate fish are a pain. But guarantee is there.

If my tank were in the states I would give a try to LA, but my tank is in Dominican Republic.. most sellers won't ship to DR, we buy fish from exotic aquatics in California I believe they're the only ones who ship to DR (no guarantees). Not to mention the shipping costs? a 40-50$ fish can take you x3 the value of the fish just to ship, it all depends on the volume of the order of course.

You’re on point with everything but the problem is you’re trying to give the coral nutrients by feeding without fish. I dose absolutely nothing to my tank. I have flow and a skimmer. I feed heavily(12cubes a day, another large chunk, and a full sheet or nori) that is IT. People chase too much and try and tweak everything too much.

Just my opinion of course

I admit you're right... but my plan isn't permanently giving those nutrients without fish, I wanted to because I'm afraid of my acros stressing a lot and die.. was looking for "temporary options"