Be wary of rumors

[Nightdiver]

Experienced people are the ones I want to get my info from. Please share with us that want real experience vs. the other bs. There's so much to learn in this hobby and it really is irritating when you get such drastically different opinions that are just opinions. I want experience and if you don't have it then keep quiet. The longer I do this the better I get but I can't get enough good info. I see others with many tangs and although introducing a new tang to my tank is scary after having 2 deadly cases if ich I still want to succeed with this endeavor. FYI I have a 190 and just added my 3rd tang after much agony. I qtd him for 3 weeks, I would have liked longer but felt he was very healthy and would be happier in something larger than a 40 gallon. We all have different priorities as well, do we want more fish or do we want to grow sps. This is a crazy addictive hobby like no other but people need to do their research from credible hobbyists.

You guys talk I will listen!

 

[scardall]

Experienced people are the ones I want to get my info from. Please share with us that want real experience vs. the other bs. There's so much to learn in this hobby and it really is irritating when you get such drastically different opinions that are just opinions. I want experience and if you don't have it then keep quiet. The longer I do this the better I get but I can't get enough good info. I see others with many tangs and although introducing a new tang to my tank is scary after having 2 deadly cases if ich I still want to succeed with this endeavor. FYI I have a 190 and just added my 3rd tang after much agony. I qtd him for 3 weeks, I would have liked longer but felt he was very healthy and would be happier in something larger than a 40 gallon. We all have different priorities as well, do we want more fish or do we want to grow sps. This is a crazy addictive hobby like no other but people need to do their research from credible hobbyists.

You guys talk I will listen!

From what you indicated is that you tangs come down with ICH. Check you water parameters. Please check out the compatibility of the fish you have with any Potential new arrival. An Established fish can have an attitude with a new arrival as well. From what I have read Powder Blue tangs are more likely to get ICH. Good luck and Chill (This thread appears not to be all that serious)

 

[Paul B]

I have had so many tangs I was thinking of naming my next born Tang. Harry Tang. Of course I am to old for that. My tank used to be an ich farm as all tanks were and we kept copper in the water continousely. Tangs and all other fish now should not get ich or anything else. My fish never do and I add fish from any LFS and the sea along with mud, amphipods, seaweeds, water etc, almost every day in the summer. That is the reason I wrote a book so I could put down my theories and methods that I learned decades before computers were invented and no one will argue with me. Besides I am old and soon will start to drool. Many people won't read my book because they feel my methods can't possably work. That is fine and I won't push it. Those are the people you see posting on disease forums. I feel it is very easy but I can't write all that on these forums because so many people have such strong opinions and I am to old to argue. It's like reverse UG filters, if I mention that, the sky would fall because of course they can't work. I have very strong opinions on why fish get sick and I think I have finally found out how to correct that. My 24 year old still spawning fish have never been sick and probably never will. This is why I almost never go on Reef Central any more. They just can't understand a new idea and would rather teach how to cure a fish rather than keep it healthy in the first place. I introduced blackworms to the salt water hobby and I got all sorts of arguements. If you don't like blackworms, don't use them. I have written many articles on this and on some forums I am not even allowed to link to those articles. I don't push my ideas on anyone. I use them myself and some of my fish are on Social Security.
I disagree with so many fish practices that If I listed them all I would be stoned with long spined urchins and maybe inflated spiny puffers.
Parasites can be cleaned from a fish in about a day. I buy parasite infested fish all the time for practically nothing because the LFS knows they will die. I get many for free, cure them and give them away.
The salt water hobby is 44 years old (in the US) In 44 years we have not progressed as far as disease goes and many people have the same problems and use the exact same methods we used in 1971. It's like the world was in the 1920s. There is a better way and some day soon fish will no longer be bothered by these simple diseases.
Now if you want to argue with me because of my "opinions". Send me a SASE and I will ignore it or use it to level my table. I realize there are plenty of very talented people on these forums, many with much more education than I have so read all you can and while you are at it, look at their tanks and especially it's age to determine the health of the inhabitants. If you find that person, follow his or her theories. But don't argue with them, either learn from them or go on to someone else.
Remember, I am not the God of fish and my theories can be 100% wrong. Maybe my fish are just lucky.

 

[Paul B]

A video of some of my fish at their feeder
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-dont-have-the-nicest-tank-on-here.206032/page-3#post-2359864

 

[scardall]

Hey Paul B. If you have some great idea's, share them. But be constructive not Opinionated. Remember this--Mutual Communication is key, that is how we expand our knowledge base. I've been in this Hobby for 20+ years and I still have alot to learn. Be Cool.

 

[Paul B]

I have been sharing them for years. I am a very prolific writer, I just don't want to write the same thing every week as it is all on here all over the place. I do a lot of writing for Saltwater smarts here http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/marine-fish-heal-through-slime-3962/
They are also publishing my book. Go there and look up my name.

 

[eric3316]

anyone in this hobby KNOWS how these things go--- fads begin, sometimes enabled by a manufacturer of a potion or a mechanical AND we are off to the races! its the reason WHY we went from Dolomite, to coral rubble to sand to bear bottoms and back to sand again!

Wait, who went back to sand again?

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

Congrats Paul! What will the name of the book be? I've got a few ideas

"Reefin' with Paul B."
"Maybe I'm right and they're wrong, ask me if I care"
"Read this book and you will chuckle some"
"Bald guys and aquariums: why Supermodels secretly dig them"
"What happens to your arms after being wet for 40 years"
"Everything you ever wanted to know about Ich (is not included in this book)"
"Under Gravel Filters and the Reef Aquarium, and other things you don't know jack about"

I was on Usenet (pre-Web Internet) in the early 90's, CompuServe a while before that...were you online anywhere back then by any chance? Just curious.

I was on dial-up BBSs in the 1980s on my 8088 IBM and a 2400 baud modem. My screen name was also Floyd R Turbo. I played "Dominion" a lot. That game was like a online 1board game where you made your move once a day and then it updated overnight. No pretty colors though, even though I had an RGB 16 color monitor, which was high speed in those days. That and my 64K of RAM and 2x 5.25" floppies (no HDD).

 

[cloak]

I have been sharing them for years. I am a very prolific writer, I just don't want to write the same thing every week as it is all on here all over the place. I do a lot of writing for Saltwater smarts here http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/marine-fish-heal-through-slime-3962/
They are also publishing my book. Go there and look up my name.

That ego never sleeps... "Your powers are weak old man."

Put it this way, if we were talking about a body & fender business, after all this time I would expect some "show quality" work, yet you keep giving me fish eyes, bubbles, runs & bugs. So quick to discount those clownfish breeding in somebody elses tank. C'mon man! Those corals you have almost look like you bought them at the LFS the other day... I've said it once and I'll say it again, I would expect a lot more from somebody who has been in the hobby for so long... I would love to see your next tank. Show us all how to put the pieces together so to say... GL.

Sorry moderators, I'm just not a big fan...

 

[Paul B]

Floyd, I like all those names and wish I could use all of them.
Cloak, that is fine I realize my tank is not the nicest one on here, but why are you reading about it?
And I will not have a next tank, this is it. Like it or not. BTW, some of my corals were bought the other day. But some of my fish were bought when Reagon was President.

Quote:
"Your powers are weak old man."

I actually like that.

 

[mcarroll]

[…]I was on dial-up BBSs in the 1980s on my 8088 IBM and a 2400 baud modem. […]

Those were the good old days!

I was never on a Fido- or Bit-net BBS so I don't think I'd have been likely to bump into you unless you're from northern Indiana. [emoji6]. It was EXPENSIVE to call long distance to connect to a remote BBS!!!

I started on a C64 as soon as they came out and later a souped up Atari 800 with 300 baud, but it was almost a decade before I traded in my fishbowl and guppies for a "real" 10 gallon tank. (~1991) [emoji38]

 

[Paul B]

Cloak, one of these corals was bought last week. Like I always say, not the nicest tank on here, but it is as nice as I want it to be because I don't think of it as a contest. Just an experiment and "my" hobby, for me. Many tanks on here are just fantastic and I am jealous of them.

 

[mcarroll]

Sorry moderators, I'm just not a big fan...

There are no limits at R2R and no Style Police thank you. If you want someone to be a big fan of, there are other folks here on R2R to serve that purpose - PaulB may not be your cup of tea and that's OK.

Why not do something more fun and make your own thread about your own tank or tell us your theories - or use the Lounge section and start a thread about comic books or your fender business? It's all good!

Save the lemons!

 

[Paul B]

Being that this thread started out as rumors, there are some other rumors we have not discussed. Tanks with the most SPS corals are the healthiest. We hear that all the time and we also hear that the most colorful corals are also the healthiest. Both statements are not true IMO. If you do any SCUBA diving you will see different corals in different areas. That is due to many factors including current, depth and weather as typhoons will destroy LPS corals while doing nothing to SPS corals. SPS corals predominate in most areas due to that fact and typhoons are very common in the South Pacific where many corals come from.
Intensity of coral color also has nothing to do with coral health (unless the coral is white) The color is not even part of the coral but it's symbiotic algae which gets it's color from the minerals in the water and the light it receives.
Some people prefer to keep only SPS corals and those tanks are harder to maintain requiring higher water standards. Other people prefer LPS corals because of the movement while others enjoy fish more and the corals are just there as decoration. It's your hobby so decorate your tank any way you like even if some people don't like it. Many people think the bottles and cans in my tank are ridiculous. That's fine. Many people don't think my tank has enough SPS corals. I just don't like SPS corals that much and find them boring. I have some but I prefer the LPS better. I think I am more interested in having my fish spawn and most of them are. That is my love of the hobby. Seeing the fish thrive and spawn. I also like odder fish like shrimpfish and pipefish as I have had plenty of tangs and angels, I just find them less interesting. I realize most people prefer to keep those fish and that is fine, I used to like them myself. I also used to like puffers, moray eels, lionfish and frogfish. I still do but can't keep them in my reef. To keep the fish in good health and to have them spawn we need to feed them much more than is beneficial to a coral reef tank so the corals, especially the SPS corals will suffer. It is very hard to keep a tank full of SPS corals "and" keep the fish spawning especially if the tank is overstocked with fish. You would have to change the water every day which I prefer not to do. My nitrates are around 40 which is to high for most SPS corals, I know this but still gravitate to keeping the fish spawning. There are 25 or so fish in my reef which is too many, but being it is my tank, I try to keep the spawning fish as well as the SPS and LPS happy. It is a balancing act but makes it interesting. If I were to just want to focus on SPS corals I would eliminate half of the fish. In this hobby we can put whatever we want in our tanks and it is even a pleasure when someone calls you out and doesn't like you or how you like to keep your tank. I take no offence to this as it is only a hobby and not the thing I do in my life that I am most proud of. There is a whole world out there besides fish tanks, but we do like to spend some time talking about our hobbies.
My Grand Daughter Greta has nothing to do with this thread but she is my most important hobby. I am going to her 3 year old Birthday party today where the theme is pink TuTu's. I will not be wearing one but I promised her I would wear a pink shirt because I try to do whatever Greta asks of me.

 

[Paul Carpenter]

This hobby is largely run with rumors. Just look at any thread and if someone asks a question you will see multiple, quite different answers, which is fine as everyone has an opinion. But if that opinion came about because you heard someone say, or write something, you should mention that. Rather than say something like "an undergravel filter does not work, is a nitrate factory, causes global warming, or locusts" you should say something like "Although I personally have never used one, I "think" they won't work for this reason. That is completely different than, they don't work because I heard it or everyone says that.
Or if you say you can't keep a certain tang in a certain tank I think you should say, you tried it several times and this was the problem.
If you have not done something, preferably a few times or over a few years, your opinion carries less weight because it is hearsay. If you have ever been a juror, you know what hearsay is and hearsay doesn't mean much. You can keep a tang, or a whale shark in any tank you want, how do I know? Well I "heard" about keeping whale sharks in a nano so my opinion on that doesn't matter as it is hearsay, but I have kept multiple tangs for over five years in a 40 gallon tank with no problems. Was the tang happy? I couldn't see his smile so maybe not. I can't comment because that would be conjecture. If someone mentioned to me that my tangs were happy, that would be hearsay.
I would rather keep a tang in a larger tank, preferably the ocean but we are basically fish keepers and we keep our fish in whatever we have at hand although we may know that a larger tank is better.
The rumors about ich drive me crazy which is the reason I don't participate in ich threads any more.
If I offended anyone, you can offend me to. I can take it as it will probably be hearsay.

I used to have hair, but I can prove it so it is not hearsay or "hairsay"

Well written. It is my humble opinion however that your words shouldn't be limited to just here but in general everywhere, everyday. Thanks for sharing and GO SEATTLE. They're going to win today because blah blah blah and yada yada yada......

I agree completely. It doesn't hurt us experienced aquarists, we know better, but causes serious problems to beginners .

 

[watchguy123]

This indeed is such a fun hobby, and I agree wholeheartedly with you that so many flavors to choose from for one's own tank, whether it be be sps, lps, fish or a little bit of it all.

Experience is a great teacher, no argument there. And you have an incredible amount of experience. I read just about all of your threads on this forum and I learn from each one. I also like books, and I think book learning, scientific research are all good. I also like degrees but we can argue that another time perhaps when we are talking about t-cells or macrophages. Not much scientific research gets published in hobbies though. So this hobby seems to develop knowledge through wonderful years of experiences and teachers like you, certainly lots of rumors and conjecture, some overhyped product advertising, Google, and forums like r2r that bring so many interested hobbyists together.

Still overwhelmed by your breeding mandarin fish and pipefish, of course all the other spawning pairs that you have as well. How mind boggling amazing, to think in terms of providing foods to keep fish healthy vs finding remedies for illnesses. I don't think I've ever given enough consideration to fish diet. Thanks again for making me ponder, regardless, I am not building a reverse under gravel filter

 

[Paul B]

Well If your not going to build a reverse UG filter, then I am not sure your tank won't crash on Tuesday. This is one of the friendly forums so I don't mind posting what some would call controversial theories. On some forums they are very narrow minded and just don't or can't grasp certain methodologies even if they are proved to work. I rarely talk about quarantining but I have my own opinions for and against that. My bluestripe pipefish is pregnant again. I have never seen the babies as I would imagine they are tiny beyond belief. I doubt they would find enough to eat in my tank for more than a couple of days but I really don't know. Maybe there is a bunch of them living under my UG filter. Wouldn't that be cool? I also came up with another theory while on my boat today fixing my dinghy. I was trying to figure out why live blackworms seem to keep fish alive, spawning and "possibly" immune from diseases but frozen worms, while also good do not seem to have the same "Umph". I think I figured it out, but of course I could be way off. I think it is due to the fact that the live worms have living bacteria in their guts. I would assume that living bacteria would illicit an immune response in the fish there by keeping their immune system functioning properly. Frozen worms would only have dead bacteria. Just a theory of course.

 

[scardall]

This indeed is such a fun hobby, and I agree wholeheartedly with you that so many flavors to choose from for one's own tank, whether it be be sps, lps, fish or a little bit of it all.

Experience is a great teacher, no argument there. And you have an incredible amount of experience. I read just about all of your threads on this forum and I learn from each one. I also like books, and I think book learning, scientific research are all good. I also like degrees but we can argue that another time perhaps when we are talking about t-cells or macrophages. Not much scientific research gets published in hobbies though. So this hobby seems to develop knowledge through wonderful years of experiences and teachers like you, certainly lots of rumors and conjecture, some overhyped product advertising, Google, and forums like r2r that bring so many interested hobbyists together.

Still overwhelmed by your breeding mandarin fish and pipefish, of course all the other spawning pairs that you have as well. How mind boggling amazing, to think in terms of providing foods to keep fish healthy vs finding remedies for illnesses. I don't think I've ever given enough consideration to fish diet. Thanks again for making me ponder, regardless, I am not building a reverse under gravel filter

On that reverse UGF, don't forget about the flow characteristics. Even flow is tricky.

 

[Paul B]

The UG filter plate has larger holes farther away from the water tubes that feed the thing to try to even out the flow because the water pressure would be greatest at the point the water enters the plate. Even though my gravel goes from 6" deep to virtually zero (due to my 2 pistol shrimp) the UG filter seems to still work no matter what. At least I think so

 

[mcarroll]

I remember that always being a concern with standard UGF (they also worked "anyway") but I figured with water pumps creating relatively quite a bit of pressure under the rfUGF plate that that would go some ways toward creating a more even flow?