Bean animal plumbing question?

[badfinger]

What? Your input into your sump from your overflow is 4" under the water level in the sump?

If so perfect! You want your full syphon to be submerged in water so no air gets into the pipe, durso doesn't matter air gets in from the top section, and backup should be submerged so incase your first 2 drains clogged completely your backup can create full suction

 

[TerraCaelus]

How much flow are you wishing to put through the system?

It's a 40 gallon breeder. I'm thinking my flow will be about 700.

 

[TerraCaelus]

What? Your input into your sump from your overflow is 4" under the water level in the sump?

If so perfect! You want your full syphon to be submerged in water so no air gets into the pipe, durso doesn't matter air gets in from the top section, and backup should be submerged so incase your first 2 drains clogged completely your backup can create full suction

Perfect!

 

[badfinger]

With only 700 you will never have an issue. You could close the first drain completely and the durso will take the flow, then if that gets blocked your backup would take it all..... sooo, you should always be in smooth sailings

 

[TaylorPilot]

Like others have said, you want the siphon and open channel to be about an inch below the water surface in the sump. If you go too deep, it makes it harder for the system to purge. I have personally set one up like that in the last few weeks. It took me about an hour to figure out why it just wouldn't purge. Even at 1200 GPH, it just didn't have enough velocity to push the air down against the 6" of water above the pipe exit. 4 inches may be OK, but personally, I would cut the pipe off shorter so that it sits just a little below the surface. At the very least, it will make the system purge faster. The open channel depth doesn't really matter, you can leave it at 4 inches and it won't make a difference. I would leave the siphon line at 1" all the way. The open channel and emergency may benefit from increasing the piping size to 1.5". They should handle the flow easily at 1", however, they will handle more flow silently at 1.5", so it doesn't have to be as perfectly tuned. Preferably, you would want the gate valve closer to the sump. By putting it at the bottom, it usually allows the system to purge faster as well.

You want the siphon line to be low in the external drain box. The open channel is what actually sets the height of the water level in the external box, so adjust accordingly. Finally, you want the emergency line to be a straight pipe that is atleast 1.5" below the very top of the box. I'm not sure how tall the box is, so you may have to test and tune it to make it perfect. All of these things may not make or break the system. But using some "best practices" will make sure that everything runs with as little chance to a spill as possible. If set up right, it should purge in about 10 seconds and not require any intervention during restarting.

 

[TerraCaelus]

Like others have said, you want the siphon and open channel to be about an inch below the water surface in the sump. If you go too deep, it makes it harder for the system to purge. I have personally set one up like that in the last few weeks. It took me about an hour to figure out why it just wouldn't purge. Even at 1200 GPH, it just didn't have enough velocity to push the air down against the 6" of water above the pipe exit. 4 inches may be OK, but personally, I would cut the pipe off shorter so that it sits just a little below the surface. At the very least, it will make the system purge faster. The open channel depth doesn't really matter, you can leave it at 4 inches and it won't make a difference. I would leave the siphon line at 1" all the way. The open channel and emergency may benefit from increasing the piping size to 1.5". They should handle the flow easily at 1", however, they will handle more flow silently at 1.5", so it doesn't have to be as perfectly tuned. Preferably, you would want the gate valve closer to the sump. By putting it at the bottom, it usually allows the system to purge faster as well.

You want the siphon line to be low in the external drain box. The open channel is what actually sets the height of the water level in the external box, so adjust accordingly. Finally, you want the emergency line to be a straight pipe that is atleast 1.5" below the very top of the box. I'm not sure how tall the box is, so you may have to test and tune it to make it perfect. All of these things may not make or break the system. But using some "best practices" will make sure that everything runs with as little chance to a spill as possible. If set up right, it should purge in about 10 seconds and not require any intervention during restarting.

Thank you for all this information. The overflow is a synergy reef 16" that's why I am looking at 1". The tank is a 40 gallon breeder.

 

[TerraCaelus]

Like others have said, you want the siphon and open channel to be about an inch below the water surface in the sump. If you go too deep, it makes it harder for the system to purge. I have personally set one up like that in the last few weeks. It took me about an hour to figure out why it just wouldn't purge. Even at 1200 GPH, it just didn't have enough velocity to push the air down against the 6" of water above the pipe exit. 4 inches may be OK, but personally, I would cut the pipe off shorter so that it sits just a little below the surface. At the very least, it will make the system purge faster. The open channel depth doesn't really matter, you can leave it at 4 inches and it won't make a difference. I would leave the siphon line at 1" all the way. The open channel and emergency may benefit from increasing the piping size to 1.5". They should handle the flow easily at 1", however, they will handle more flow silently at 1.5", so it doesn't have to be as perfectly tuned. Preferably, you would want the gate valve closer to the sump. By putting it at the bottom, it usually allows the system to purge faster as well.

You want the siphon line to be low in the external drain box. The open channel is what actually sets the height of the water level in the external box, so adjust accordingly. Finally, you want the emergency line to be a straight pipe that is atleast 1.5" below the very top of the box. I'm not sure how tall the box is, so you may have to test and tune it to make it perfect. All of these things may not make or break the system. But using some "best practices" will make sure that everything runs with as little chance to a spill as possible. If set up right, it should purge in about 10 seconds and not require any intervention during restarting.

Also the way the trigger sump is designed. I cannot cut the standby that goes into the sump.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Well I don't mean a larger bulkhead than 1". Actually the original bean animal system used 1" bulkheads that was enlarged to 1.5" plumbing using a simple plumbing adapter. You could change the plumbing to 1.5" after the bulkhead to give a little better noise performance on your open drain. Allot of people don't and the system still runs great, you just can't flow as much water through the open channel before it starts to make noise. It isn't a problem if you get it fined tuned. I agree that a 1" drain will flow 700 gph easily. You could have your siphon and open channel both completely clog, and the 1" emergency would handle the flow fine. I've never noticed that about the Trigger Sumps. They are definitely good looking sumps! Which model do you have?

 

[TaylorPilot]

Also, I forgot to say that you should be sure to support your plumbing. Usually with some "plumbing standoff clamps". You don't want the box holding all the weight of the pipes full of water. Especially on a 40B where the glass is thinner than some of the larger tanks.

 

[TerraCaelus]

Also, I forgot to say that you should be sure to support your plumbing. Usually with some "plumbing standoff clamps". You don't want the box holding all the weight of the pipes full of water. Especially on a 40B where the glass is thinner than some of the larger tanks.

I was considering that and was thinking about how I was going to support the box.

 

[Eckolancer]

This setup defeats the whole purpose of a bean animal. If that main Line gets clogged you will have no drain.

 

[TaylorPilot]

I like using split ring hangers. You get these.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_302038-34146-AV302038___?productId=3223515&pl=1&Ntt=split+ring+hangers

A length of this. That you cut to size with a hack saw after you get it all mocked up and figure out spacing.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_483767-37672-11551___?productId=50325409&pl=1&Ntt=3/8+threaded+rod

Finally, use these as the mounts. I like these because it doesn't require your measurements to be perfect.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_301814-34146-AV301814_1z10xw2__?productId=3223501&pl=1

If you are having to mount it flush against the stand you can use these. I don't like them as much because your measurements have to be more spot on. Although, if you drilled a 1/2" hole in the stand behind the center hole where the rod it threaded, it would allow you to have the extra length of threaded rod stick through the stand.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Get your pipes installed and glued to the point that the clamps will be attaching. Attach the clamp to the pipe and thread the side beam connector on to the pipe. Thread the rod into the clamp. Screw or unscrew the connector so that it is the perfect distance to screw it into the stand. Mark the rod where you would need to cut it. When I cut a thread like that, I like to put a nut on the threads. Because when you cut it with a hacksaw you may jack up a few of the threads. If you already have a nut on the threads, you can unscrew it over the messed up threads, and it will straighten them back up. On the clamps, make sure that the thread isn't in so far that it is pressing on the pipe. You might cut into the pipe if it is extruding into the clamp and you tighten it down on the pipe.

 

[steventaylor702]

Mine has all 3 sanitary t's. I know the pic does not show the best. It also 100% will self start after power failure. My power goes off monthly around here so this system has been tested heavily in that area. First drain with the gate is full siphon and only reason partial open is because of how much water I prefer to keep in my overflow for noise silence.

The problem I see with you setup is you have all three pipe running into one pipe of the same size so if and when your pipe gets clogged up all 3 drain pipes will have nowhere to flow in to causing your display to over flow. With the way you have that plumbed you are defeating the purpose of a bean animal over flow which is silence, redundancy, and safety

 

[buckeye82]

The problem I see with you setup is you have all three pipe running into one pipe of the same size so if and when your pipe gets clogged up all 3 drain pipes will have nowhere to flow in to causing your display to over flow. With the way you have that plumbed you are defeating the purpose of a bean animal over flow which is silence, redundancy, and safety

Agree it is a modified setup and something I thought about initially. I decided since my sump is 30-35 feet away in another room, rather than drilling/plumbing that many runs of schedule 40 to flow it all into one based upon flow rate. I opted to add some extra leak detectors into the Apex setup in case of the main line ever clogging. For my setup it works like a charm but understand it is not typical.

 

[TerraCaelus]

I like using split ring hangers. You get these.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_302038-34146-AV302038___?productId=3223515&pl=1&Ntt=split+ring+hangers

A length of this. That you cut to size with a hack saw after you get it all mocked up and figure out spacing.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_483767-37672-11551___?productId=50325409&pl=1&Ntt=3/8+threaded+rod

Finally, use these as the mounts. I like these because it doesn't require your measurements to be perfect.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_301814-34146-AV301814_1z10xw2__?productId=3223501&pl=1

If you are having to mount it flush against the stand you can use these. I don't like them as much because your measurements have to be more spot on. Although, if you drilled a 1/2" hole in the stand behind the center hole where the rod it threaded, it would allow you to have the extra length of threaded rod stick through the stand.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Get your pipes installed and glued to the point that the clamps will be attaching. Attach the clamp to the pipe and thread the side beam connector on to the pipe. Thread the rod into the clamp. Screw or unscrew the connector so that it is the perfect distance to screw it into the stand. Mark the rod where you would need to cut it. When I cut a thread like that, I like to put a nut on the threads. Because when you cut it with a hacksaw you may jack up a few of the threads. If you already have a nut on the threads, you can unscrew it over the messed up threads, and it will straighten them back up. On the clamps, make sure that the thread isn't in so far that it is pressing on the pipe. You might cut into the pipe if it is extruding into the clamp and you tighten it down on the pipe.

This is great information. Thank you!

 

[Larry L]

I'd try to avoid T-ing or Y-ing any of the drain lines together before they enter the sump. I originally had mine T-ed together, and was getting a fair amount of noise. I discovered that water from the full siphon line was flowing fast enough to create a venturi effect and pull air down the Durso line, creating a gurgling noise. Once I separated them and ran them individually into the sump it was dead silent. Plus, as others have mentioned there's the issue of a common point of failure if the shared part of the drain line clogs.

 

[jaws789832]

Thanks for bringing this up Terra. I too and dealing with the exact same set up for my overflow. 120 gallon display that I drilled with the synergy reef overflow into a trigger emerald sump. My sump does have 2 intakes though. I cant find a 1" sanitary T either (I don't think they make them) and be careful with bumping up to the 1.5 " because I don't think it will fit into the rear overflow. I went down to the store and measured them and it seemed to be about 1/2 inch too big by the time you connect the elbows together. I was just going to go with the 1 inch all the way down using just a regular T in the overflow and hope for the best. I was going to put the full syphon line down as close to the bottom of the overflow box as I can get it and raise the partial suction up to where it starts draining right at the bottom point I drilled the holes in the tank. keep us informed on how it goes.