Benefit to skimming besides increased PH and avoiding Nitrate?

[Tuffloud1]

I think the answer is going to be different for every tank. But in general, it depends on your fish load. I only have three fish, but a ton of corals in a 100 gallon, and I stopped using my skimmer 5 months ago.

Do you run any mechanical filtration?

What are your NO3 and PO4 levels?

 

[X-37B]

Skimmers have been around forever.
Do they remove the good stuff?
They do remove the bad stuff.
Oxygenation is a good enough reason to run one imo.
Also heavy bioloads of fish require one imo.
Just look into a skimmer cup and ask yourself if you want that in your tank?
For me and most a skimmer is standard equipment.
The proof is in the skimmer cup!

 

[hart24601]

I have tried running skimmerless, however I get a very thick oil on the surface of the water when I don't run a skimmer. Others no doubt have different results, however that's what keeps me running a skimmer.

 

[Onajoyride]

If you think of matter (food) being put into the system it would make sense that regardless of the process of filtering that same amount of matter would need to be pulled out in some fashion.
I've noticed that with the addition of a roller matt my skimmate has been more consistent. Between the skimmer and roller the export has been more even and thus my n03 and p04 export has stabilized.
I know that's not a direct answer to your question but more my experience with my tank.

 

[ReeferSteve]

I don’t buy fancy equipment or stuff I don’t need. But, I run a skimmer. My filtration methods are skimmer and sump with fuge, that’s it.

So I use the skimmer to take out any nasties it can and oxygenation. I don’t see why anyone would choose to spend thousands on stuff that isn’t necessary like a trident setup and then try to decide if a skimmer is worth the investment. At the very minimum it’s oxygenating the water column. There is no doubt a TON of wasted money in the hobby but I don’t think buying a skimmer is one of those wastes.

I know this doesn’t do anything to answer your question. Just my two cents on skimming.

 

[beaslbob]

Something I have always had a hard time grasping -

If you have undetectable NO3 and your PH is ideal without a skimmer, what benefit is there to running a skimmer?

I see reefers running skimmers but then dosing NO3, help me understand this.

Is there a measurable benefit to running a skimmer BESIDES trying to avoid breakdown of organics and the eventual NO3 increase as well as the benefit of PH boost?

I understand your confusion. As I have it as well.

After all macro algae limit nitrates and raise Ph as well. Plus prefer to consume ammonia if present, phosphates and return oxygen and fish food.

So I also don't understand the need or use of skimmers. I'll just use macro algae to balance out and stabilize the system.

But that's just me and my .02

 

[beaslbob]

Skimmers have been around forever.
...

Disagree. I don't remember seeing any till after the mid '80's.

But for most people that was forever.

 

[X-37B]

Tunze first skimmer was in the early 60's if I remember correctly.
So thats forever for me lol!

 

[Tuffloud1]

I don’t see why anyone would choose to spend thousands on stuff that isn’t necessary like a trident setup and then try to decide if a skimmer is worth the investment. At the very minimum it’s oxygenating the water column. There is no doubt a TON of wasted money in the hobby but I don’t think buying a skimmer is one of those wastes.

I know this doesn’t do anything to answer your question. Just my two cents on skimming.

Keeping alk stable is super important so a Trident is super useful if you are honest with yourself that you don’t test as much as you should.

When you have to dose Nitrates, that is where I start questioning a skimmer.

Removing the stuff that breaks down into eventual nitrates when you already have undetectable levels without a skimmer is what I’m questioning.

The mentality seems to be a skimmer is something you just run regardless of the chemistry because “it pulls gunk out”.

Why is the gunk that gets pulled out “bad”? Because it looks gross? Because it smells bad?

 

[GtiKyle]

Keeping alk stable is super important so a Trident is super useful if you are honest with yourself that you don’t test as much as you should.

When you have to dose Nitrates, that is where I start questioning a skimmer.

Removing the stuff that breaks down into eventual nitrates when you already have undetectable levels without a skimmer is what I’m questioning.

The mentality seems to be a skimmer is something you just run.

My tank runs undetectable nitrates right now. No matter how much i feed, i cannot get them to rise.

I run a skimmer and chaeto. Chaeto hasn't grown in weeks.

I like running the skimmer for the oxygenation. But I realize it's also not a binary tool. I've been tuning it's on-time lately to try and balance the benefit of adding oxygen, vs. pulling too much waste (nitrates) out. I think many people miss this. All these export methods don't have to be simply on, or off. You can tweak them to keep levels as you see fit.

I guess my point is, it's just another tool in the toolbox. It has it's pros and cons, and i keep that in mind when i implement it.

 

[Tuffloud1]

If you think of matter (food) being put into the system it would make sense that regardless of the process of filtering that same amount of matter would need to be pulled out in some fashion.
I've noticed that with the addition of a roller matt my skimmate has been more consistent. Between the skimmer and roller the export has been more even and thus my n03 and p04 export has stabilized.
I know that's not a direct answer to your question but more my experience with my tank.

This is more inline with what I’m curious about.

Matter goes in as food, fish poo and it dissolves into the water column, bacteria break down the waste and the end result is nitrate, right?

So what exactly are we trying to remove if we already have undetectable nitrate? The system is using/processing what nitrate there is so what exactly am I trying to “skim” out?

This seems to be the question that I’ve never seen answered beyond the assumption that the “gunk” is just bad because it smells and looks gross.

 

[X-37B]

My nitrates run 1ish but I feed alot. No fuge just filter sock and skimmer.
I do have 3 liters of eheim substrate pro in a mesh bag in the sump.
Po4 runs .03-.06.
Not all organic wastes are removed by bacteria alone. A skimmer helps as most systems are not balanced in that respect.

 

[Miller535]

I do not think running one is necessary . Many people do not use them. How necessary they are depends on your setup. Mark Levinson like many others uses it for MECHANICAL filtration only. He uses no floss, no socks, no other mechanical filtration. I think it can be useful at pulling pollutants out of the water as someone else stated. Any additive i dump in my tank, I have to turn off the skimmer for a little while or it goes nuts and pulls out what I just dumped in. Years ago when I use to dose essential elements I noticed my collection cup on my skimmer turning blue. Again, I think it can be useful, but not necessary. I do not think there is some fish bi-product that is harmful to a tank that they remove. Just my 2 cents

 

[X-37B]

I do not think running one is necessary . Many people do not use them. How necessary they are depends on your setup. Mark Levinson like many others uses it for MECHANICAL filtration only. He uses no floss, no socks, no other mechanical filtration. I think it can be useful at pulling pollutants out of the water as someone else stated. Any additive i dump in my tank, I have to turn off the skimmer for a little while or it goes nuts and pulls out what I just dumped in. Years ago when I use to dose essential elements I noticed my collection cup on my skimmer turning blue. Again, I think it can be useful, but not necessary. I do not think there is some fish bi-product that is harmful to a tank that they remove. Just my 2 cents

No but too much fish junk is not good. Thats where the balance comes in.
No they are not needed I agree. But most dont know how to balance a tank without bad algae or cyano issues.
I think many run a skimmer that is to large for their system. Again thats where the balance comes in imo.

 

[Miller535]

No but too much fish junk is not good. Thats where the balance comes in.
No they are not needed I agree. But most dont know how to balance a tank without bad algae or cyano issues.
I think many run a skimmer that is to large for their system. Again thats where the balance comes in imo.

I didn't say I wouldn't recommend one. I would always recommend one. I was just answering his question that it's not NECESSARY. It's absolutely beneficial.

 

[YankeeTankee]

First let me address the ph Q, I believe aeration will bring your CO2/ph closer to equilibrium with the surrounding room air. For this reason ph may go up or down ie If you've got 5 kids, 4 cats, and a mastiff in the house it will probably drop.

As for your "what do skimmers remove that natural tank processes don't" question, the bacterial makeup of our systems vary somewhat from tank to tank so I imagine some are better at removing this or that specific DOC. Skimmers remove many dissolved organic compounds, if we had to list them all, that would be a long list and would include toxins and DOC with metals bound to them. Protein skimmers are indiscriminate in their removal of DOCs, at least those DOCs that are hydrophobic or have a hydrophobic tail.

But as for a specific thing skimmers remove that may not be removed otherwise - take a DOC bound with copper.

 

[Cam_official]

I went skimmerless 4 months ago. It's been one of the best decisions I've made. I'm getting faster growth, better colors, and my constant battle with cyano resolved. One thing I did notice is you have to up your mechanical filtration to get the smaller detritus particulates out; I ended up adding some 100 micron filter pad which fixed things for me.

 

[X-37B]

Here is a good long scientific read on what your skimmer removes.

Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises.

www.advancedaquarist.com

 

[beaslbob]

My tank runs undetectable nitrates right now. No matter how much i feed, i cannot get them to rise.

I run a skimmer and chaeto. Chaeto hasn't grown in weeks.

...

gee if you get rid of the skimmer, the cheato will have more nutrients, grow faster, remove more co2 and return more o2.

Hmmmmmmm

my .02

 

[ca1ore]

Have there been any credible studies on skimmer as aerator? I see all these claims that a skimmer improves oxygenation, yada yada ….. but does it actually. Years ago, I borrowed a DO meter and tested my tank at various times throughout the 24 hour daily cycle. Running a skimmer versus not running a skimmer made very little difference to the DO levels. I've always had loads of intank circulation, an ATS, and various kinds of macra algae, so perhaps my tank is not representative …. but I tend to think skimmer as aerator in a well circulated tank is overblown.