Best ICP-OES water analysis service?

[Akutila]

First when I realized the existence of Triton Labs ICP-OES water testing service, I was amazed of the possibilities this affordable comprehensive water analysis service could offer. But right after getting my first sample tested, I found out there were lots of other companies that offer the same service with apparently same equipment: ATI, Marinlab, Reef Quest... The price range varies, some promise salinity and alkalinity testing, some have product family to fix your parameters etc.

What ICP-OES service are you using to test your water and why? What are the pros and cons, is it available in both US and Europe, what's the price tag for test and so on.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Very few people use any lab except Triton, and recently, icp analysis dot com. Labs such as ENC are a lot more expensive, and I wouldn't send seawater samples to a lab that did not explicitly list seawater.

 

[Akutila]

But have someone given a shot to another test lab than Triton? The labs I listed are specifically testing marine water, but I'm interested about the differences in whole service. For example the Marinlab test is about 1/2 the price of Tritons here in Europe.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

But have someone given a shot to another test lab than Triton? The labs I listed are specifically testing marine water, but I'm interested about the differences in whole service. For example the Marinlab test is about 1/2 the price of Tritons here in Europe.

The only data I've seen posted here is Triton and icpanalysis dot com.

 

[jason2459]

The only data I've seen posted here is Triton and icpanalysis dot com.

You will soon... lol

I keep saying that but life really has been that hectic. HOWEVER, I think it has turned out for the better. I have a second round of tests I'm excited to get results on going out in a couple weeks that I will be able to add to all my previous data. It will be good.

 

[jason2459]

First when I realized the existence of Triton Labs ICP-OES water testing service, I was amazed of the possibilities this affordable comprehensive water analysis service could offer. But right after getting my first sample tested, I found out there were lots of other companies that offer the same service with apparently same equipment: ATI, Marinlab, Reef Quest... The price range varies, some promise salinity and alkalinity testing, some have product family to fix your parameters etc.

What ICP-OES service are you using to test your water and why? What are the pros and cons, is it available in both US and Europe, what's the price tag for test and so on.

Being that they are all very affordable for an ICP-OES analysis of MANY elements there is going to be, IMO, a higher rate of error or lack of accuracy. Since we have no idea how they all actually prepare and perform their testing it makes it hard to know. I have seen published accuracy rates and LODs etc but that doesn't mean to much when seawater is extremely hard to accurately measure all of the elements that compose it. There's a lot of noise and extremely low levels of many things.

So, I find them all to be about the same. I would not trust a single report from any single vendor to react to. I do find them interesting and I believe they could be useful for tracking analysis. They are all also very easy to perform by the end user. Sending in a sample every few months may very well be worth while and helpful and you'd never have to buy a test kit yourself.

I find the major elements to be ok and as accurate as I get with many test kits available out today. The rest start becoming less and less reliable and where tracking over time is necessary. There's no way I would recommend anyone react to a single report showing something like Sn is elevated. I might suggest looking around for possible culprits like a rusting screw or something but I wouldn't go out and start doing 100% water changes filtered through 5 gallons of GAC and Cuprisorb.

 

[Big E]

You will soon... lol

I keep saying that but life really has been that hectic. HOWEVER, I think it has turned out for the better. I have a second round of tests I'm excited to get results on going out in a couple weeks that I will be able to add to all my previous data. It will be good.

I'm looking forward to this...............your work with the testing and salt mixes has been outstanding!

 

[Akutila]

You will soon... lol

I keep saying that but life really has been that hectic. HOWEVER, I think it has turned out for the better. I have a second round of tests I'm excited to get results on going out in a couple weeks that I will be able to add to all my previous data. It will be good.

I'm also looking forward to see these results! And I think I'll take a closer look for your other tests also.

 

[K100286]

Jason2459: I am right in what you just wrote that you don't believe tritons test results are accurate. Or for some reason will become inaccurate in the future? However, if the triton test is close to what sea water contains, then all these other tests that are coming on line can be measured against the triton results. As you probably know triton has performed thousands of tests on water from around the world so they do have large data base. Are they 100% accurate, no, but I think pretty close and much better then how water is being tested by using individual test kits.

 

[Mike.kel]

ATI has ICP testing kits offered through Marine Depot. There is a guy on you tube called Dan's reef he is from the U.K. but he accurately describes the variations in the testing results, how they vary from one another, price. He shares his opinion of a preference but like many things in our hobby it's about what the consumer wants from the product that determines the option chosen

 

[CoralWealth]

following this

 

[jason2459]

Jason2459: I am right in what you just wrote that you don't believe tritons test results are accurate. Or for some reason will become inaccurate in the future? However, if the triton test is close to what sea water contains, then all these other tests that are coming on line can be measured against the triton results. As you probably know triton has performed thousands of tests on water from around the world so they do have large data base. Are they 100% accurate, no, but I think pretty close and much better then how water is being tested by using individual test kits.

I am saying that ICP-OES is ok for the major elements and from there not so much like the trace elements. I'm also saying IME I find ICP-OES available to us in the hobbie at a price under $100 for more then one element is no more accurate or precise then what I can get on the major elements from my hobbie grade test kits.

I will also post this that I wrote up in another thread

"jason2459, post: 3956944, member: 56516"]I find ICP-OES no better then what's possible with hobby test kits at home. For some reason that upsets people that I have that opinion but also all my testing has shown that as well.

All my testing threads show salinity is consistently calculated at least slightly lower. My saltmix parameter thread even more so. Some by a salinity of 1-2 and some more.

There's a post on this page where I also quote Randy's personal experience with using ICP-OES to try and determine Ca from a seawater sample. He found it was only reliable with in a +/- 40ppm no better then an API test kit. My experience with the same sample sent to multiple places and the same place was about the same variance. That's a major element in seawater and will greatly change what the calculated salinity is along with the same kind of error capabilities of the other elements so I would not use a calculated ICP test to calibrate a refractometer.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/saltmix-parameters-bring-on-the-test-results.233233/page-9

Edit: post 175"

 

[jason2459]

And my threads comparing multiple kits vs ICP-OES

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/b...os-elos-salifert-api-hanna-triton-awt.234660/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/saltmix-parameters-bring-on-the-test-results.233233/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ts-api-salifert-elos-redsea-hanna-etc.222909/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...s-pro-salifert-hanna-checkers-seachem.222628/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrate-test-kit-shoot-out-nyos-salifert-redsea-api.221323/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hobbyist-vs-triton-testing.221320/

And I have more on the way.

 

[CoralWealth]

this is helpful but what about for the heavy metals?

That is really the only reason I do a triton test but I am thinking about doing and ICP instead as it is half the price. Someone recently did both (blanking on their name) but their heavy metals and mostly everything were the exact same between the triton and ICP (which is $30 and in the US)

Do you think either would be fine for heavy metals?

 

[jason2459]

this is helpful but what about for the heavy metals?

That is really the only reason I do a triton test but I am thinking about doing and ICP instead as it is half the price. Someone recently did both (blanking on their name) but their heavy metals and mostly everything were the exact same between the triton and ICP (which is $30 and in the US)

Do you think either would be fine for heavy metals?

For trace elements I would use the results for tracking analysis and not rely on it for a single test.

 

[CoralWealth]

For trace elements I would use the results for tracking analysis and not rely on it for a single test.

But I am talking more about the heavy metals to make sure none of your pumps etc are leaking, to do a test like once every 6 months.

Trace elements I am pretty confident my 20% water changes a week keep up and I occasionally add some lugols iodine (1 drop a day if low)

Then soon I am going to get a CaRx which should help even more with trace elements in a SPS dominant tank. Right now my 2 part demand is only 60 ml a day so not bad for a 180g

 

[jason2459]

The "heavy" metals you are talking about are part of the trace elements in seawater. At least I hope so.

 

[CoralWealth]

The "heavy" metals you are talking about are part of the trace elements in seawater. At least I hope so.

haha my bad. I guess I was saying I figured the ICP tests etc can do it a lot better then the home hobby test kits. when I had copper issues before and other heavy metals, they never showed up on hobby kits but were high on ICP

 

[jason2459]

I would not rely on hobby test kits for trace elements either.

Seawater is very complex and difficult to measure and is not a knock on ICP-OES testing at all which can be very accurate and reliable for much simpler solutions. Seawater has been attempted to be properly analyzed for centuries. To summarize from multiple conversations with those that attempt to analyse seawater professionally. ICP-OES is ok for the major elements, less so for the minor, and far from ok for the trace elements. ICP-MS is slightly better and AA even more so.

I mean we still don't even know all the capabilities of basic H2O. Let alone a solution with over 40 elements.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/water-the-uncommon-common-molecule.246094/

 

[jason2459]

On the complexity of the chemistry of seawater one of my favorite books I highly recommend to anyone is "An Introduction to the Chemistry of the Sea" by Michael Pilson. Available on kindle too

Otherwise here's also a good resource too.
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress....id=ch06&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch06&brand=eschol

and from it
"
VI. Chemistry of Sea Water [PDF]
If suspended solid material of either organic or inorganic origin is excluded, sea water may be considered as an aqueous solution containing a variety of dissolved solids and gases. Determination of the chemical nature and concentrations of the dissolved substances is difficult for the following reasons: (1) some of the dissolved substances, such as chloride and sodium ions, are present in very high concentrations, while others, certain metals for instance, are present in such minute quantities that they have not been detected in sea water, although they have been found in marine organisms or salt deposits; (2) two of the major constituents, sodium and potassium, are extremely difficult to determine accurately; (3) it is virtually impossible in some cases to separate related substances such as phosphate and arsenate, calcium and strontium, and chloride, bromide, and iodide. In these cases the combined elements are determined together and usually reported as if they represented only one; that is, calcium and strontium are often calculated as “calcium,” and chloride, bromide, and iodide as “chloride.”

Because of the complex nature of the dissolved materials in sea water a specially developed technique is usually required to determine the concentration of any constituent. The standard methods for the quantitative analysis of solutions which are given in textbooks generally cannot be applied to sea water without adequate checks on their accuracy. This is particularly true when dealing with elements present in extremely low concentrations, because the elements occurring as impurities in the reagents may be in amounts many times those found in the water."