Best tank transfer method?

[Tuffloud1]

I’m getting ready to transfer my 6 year old 90 gallon reef into my new 262 gallon.

I am going with dry dead rock and dry sand.

Here is what I am planning on doing:

Fill up 262 gallon after placing dry rock and sand. Plumb the 262 to the 6 year old system and let a month or so go by while keeping the lights out in the 262.

Then transfer all established rock, coral, marine pure block and fish into new tank/sump.

Does this sound like a good plan?

 

[Halal Hotdog]

If you plumb a new 262 gallon tank with dry rock and sand into an establish 90 gallon you will experience ammonia, nitrite, and then nitrate spikes. That new system will be a very large load on your existing system and might make it crash. What I would do is setup the 262 and let it run with no lights for 4-8 weeks, once you detect no ammonia and nitrite then I would plumb the two systems together for a few weeks, then eventual transfer.

 

[Tuffloud1]

If you plumb a new 262 gallon tank with dry rock and sand into an establish 90 gallon you will experience ammonia, nitrite, and then nitrate spikes. That new system will be a very large load on your existing system and might make it crash. What I would do is setup the 262 and let it run with no lights for 4-8 weeks, once you detect no ammonia and nitrite then I would plumb the two systems together for a few weeks, then eventual transfer.

I was under the impression that the dry reef saver rock could be added to existing systems.

Wouldn’t adding dry dead rock to a current system only be adding more surface area for bacteria to start colonizing?

Where would the ammonia be coming from?

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I am going with dry dead rock and dry sand.

Based on your post I was under the impression you were using live rock that was dried out and is now dead, which would release a decent amount of ammonia. I have not used Reef Saver dry rock. This is going to be a large impact to your system, I would still let the new tank cycle before connecting it to your existing tank, but if the rock has literally nothing to leach into the water then you might be able to get away to just hooking everything together.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Based on your post I was under the impression you were using live rock that was dried out and is now dead, which would release a decent amount of ammonia. I have not used Reef Saver dry rock. This is going to be a large impact to your system, I would still let the new tank cycle before connecting it to your existing tank, but if the rock has literally nothing to leach into the water then you might be able to get away to just hooking everything together.

I thought the term for Reef Saver Rock is dry dead rock, sorry about that.

Reef Saver or “Marco Rocks” don’t have any dead matter or critters on them.

I think they are basically the same as Caribsea Life Rock but without the added bacteria.

If I’m wrong, maybe someone can chime in and correct me.

Thanks for the help

 

[brandon429]

Article gold data: things that have not been measured regarding bacteria in reefing

So each day on every forum on the web there are questions about bacteria and what they require, don't require, tolerate and will not tolerate. And 99% of the answers are unmeasured, they're recirculated info for decades regarding marine cycle/filtration aerobes and they're not measured using...

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you are about to set up a system that belongs in the untested portion of that thread, very rare to find new material our hobby has 0 reference threads for. even though we all predict your linked systems will cycle, nobody's measured it. its been total guesses for a long time

you will be 99% of the way able to make inference on what bac do/if they transmit if you will unlink your systems just before the final move over, and lightly test/prove the new system can handle ammonia. try to see if 1/2 or 1 ppm of ammonia can be cleared over nite by the new system. **if using api ammonia, look for any movement down overnite it doesnt have to be total zero for obvious api reasons heh

you dont need a huge amount or even 2 ppm, literally any ammonia command proves bacteria are in the water and of significant levels to actually cycle another system within the 30~ day timeframe by sheer linkage

your experiment will address these false assumptions (if it works, if it doesnt they're true assumptions lol):
-when extra surface area is provided, only more feed can allow a bacterial biomass increase to take over the new system. Your system will not be getting new feed or new + bioloading, only the current amnts handled by the current system remain. The new surface area will be taken over by biomass that was already accustomed to X amount of daily waste, and thats amazing resourcing if it does occur. it could indicate that bac receive nutrition from sources other than human masters (how did they ever survive before we were on scene with liquid ammonium chloride to permit them lol)

-that insignificant amounts of bac are in water. **aquabiomic's studies have measured bac in water, but now we want to see practical measures. Can you bring up a giant +100 gallon system with orders of dry surface area with water-only transmission> if not, reef water only has sparse nitrifiers riding rafts in suspension, if so it means there are significant amounts. **some very very high level reef biologists have said firmly there is hardly any nitrifiers suspended in water** your test can put a final stamp on that statement

 

[brandon429]

the part about bacteria not being able to add biomass to cover the new system unless you increase feed is a really big deal, about 98% of current reefers if polled would guess that way in my opinion, going off other test threads we've made about cycling concepts.

 

[Tuffloud1]

the part about bacteria not being able to add biomass to cover the new system unless you increase feed is a really big deal, about 98% of current reefers if polled would guess that way in my opinion, going off other test threads we've made about cycling concepts.

So do you recommend increasing feed or adding fish during this time?

 

[brandon429]

no its the opposite, leave it. I predict it will cycle without all those additions, those are what the greater public would think. I could be wrong though, worth the prediction and test and Ill link your results regardless of outcome I'd enjoy the real testing for sure. you are eventually moving over the rocks from the current system it wont even matter if the new system cycles or not, its just really easy to test on that last step, right before you move over when the systems are unconnected (that way we can't claim the other tank is doing the reduction of low level ammonia)

*if it didnt cycle for some reason, then add one bottle of cycling bac and it will be insta cycled per directions on the bottle it'll catch you right up

 

[Tuffloud1]

no its the opposite, leave it. I predict it will cycle without all those additions, those are what the greater public would think. I could be wrong though, worth the prediction and test and Ill link your results regardless of outcome I'd enjoy the real testing for sure. you are eventually moving over the rocks from the current system it wont even matter if the new system cycles or not, its just really easy to test on that last step, right before you move over when the systems are unconnected (that way we can't claim the other tank is doing the reduction of low level ammonia)

*if it didnt cycle for some reason, then add one bottle of cycling bac and it will be insta cycled per directions on the bottle it'll catch you right up

When you say it will cycle, what do you mean?

I thought that because the old system and new tank will be connected, that all the new rock in the new system will simply uptake bacteria from the old system - so nothing is really cycling (ammonia breaking down into nitrite - nitrate).

In other words, the bacteria from the old system is simply spreading to the new rock in the new tank.

 

[brandon429]

Well said. Am only referring to bac relocating and growing on new surfaces agreed not via parameter spiking / cycle just meaning the new system should have stand alone ability easy to confirm.

You’d be amazed how few people expect that to happen, because the greater claim is that water transmits very little bac (a video from Dr Tim online says there’s hardly any) but you are about to test the very claim by this arrangement. I too think it will work, water is the only link between the two systems so the arrangement is perfect. Another large portion of hobbyists feel that by not adding more feed they’ll be restricted in the new tank, but I don’t think so. Time to measure predictions yay

 

[Tuffloud1]

Well said. Am only referring to bac relocating and growing on new surfaces agreed not via parameter spiking / cycle just meaning the new system should have stand alone ability easy to confirm.

You’d be amazed how few people expect that to happen, because the greater claim is that water transmits very little bac (a video from Dr Tim online says there’s hardly any) but you are about to test the very claim by this arrangement. I too think it will work, water is the only link between the two systems so the arrangement is perfect. Another large portion of hobbyists feel that by not adding more feed they’ll be restricted in the new tank, but I don’t think so. Time to measure predictions yay

Understood. It is funny when you think about it.

How would bacteria begin and colonize rock in the first place if not by moving through the water?

 

[brandon429]

How would they get to the bottom of a brand new puddle in the wild yep

Studies show they’re benthic bacteria usually anchored and associated with protective biofilm, and associated with substrate. Some have already been measured in water by aquabiomics I’d like to see the practical way of quantifying them, if reef water alone cycles your new tank in a few weeks that’s a -lot- of exchange not just a little.

**what does reef water look like in a 100x sample microscope view? A thousand little mini rafts (marine snow, floc substrate, planktors) and hitching a ride on most of them should be nitrifers and other bac all mixed together. rafts landing on surfaces should be vectoring the bac all around to new surfaces

 

[raketemensch]

It looks like there's a lot of beneficial bacteria in the water, this was an interesting read that covers it a little bit:

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System A discussion with Adam Derickson of BattleCorals Eli Meyer, AquaBiomics EM: Ever since I started trying to grow corals, I’ve been awed by some reef-keepers’ abilities to...

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