Best Vitamin/Supplement for our fish?

[jason_mazzy]

Thanks Mely! Can you send me articles regarding this as I am very curious the to learn more (the biology nerd in me).
I ordered selcon and aquaforest fish v

do a search on reef central. there was a longitudinal study done. the premise is the lack of an enzyme that causes damage. much like dogs and cats lack this enzyme which leads to severe anemia and lesions.

 

[MCooper]

do a search on reef central. there was a longitudinal study done. the premise is the lack of an enzyme that causes damage. much like dogs and cats lack this enzyme which leads to severe anemia and lesions.

Interesting! In dogs and cats it causes acute hemolytic anemia usually, so if that is the case with fish then we are really doing them wrong!

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Are we talking about the study that involved evaluating replacing oil in the feed? Could you perhaps reference the study title?

 

[Paul B]

If all our fish are not living (disease free) to their expected lifespan, and all of them are not spawning (the fish that can spawn in a tank) they are certainly are missing something.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

A lot of studies that cite garlic as being "bad" are studies done on replacing large amounts of oil, not supplementation. We can't say garlic supplementation causes liver damage (for instance) based on a study not about supplementation, but replacement. That's a different ballgame altogether.

 

[Baldguy]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2352039&highlight=garlic
Here's the article on use of garlic. After reading this years ago I won't touch it for my fish.

 

[fragit]

Just started using AquaForest Fish Vitamins, and good ol' Fish Oil from the pharmacy. I feed a combination of Hikkari Mysis, and Spirolena Brine Shrimp, and Sea Veggies right now. Plan on getting some black worms from the LFS in the next week or so.

 

[Paul B]

Fish oil and live blackworms are the secret, but don't tell everyone or everybody will have very old fish that never die so LFSs will go out of business. SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[fragit]

Yes, thanks for the tip/tips @Paul B. I went to the beach on Sunday, and got my self a few amphipods now in my tanks! Didn't I read somewhere that you some how get the black worms to eat the fish oil? Or is that some body else that said that?

 

[Paul B]

That sounds like me. But the blackworms alone will keep your fish free from disease and have them live forever. Just don't tell anyone because we need people to go on those silly disease threads

 

[Baldguy]

I was also wondering how to add fish oil. Break the capsules open and soak pellets in it?

 

[locito277]

That sounds like me. But the blackworms alone will keep your fish free from disease and have them live forever. Just don't tell anyone because we need people to go on those silly disease threads

Paul where is the best place for blackworms and where do you house them prior to feeding them? Do
You feed them daily?

 

[fragit]

I just started with the fish oil, what I did was crumbled up a piece of nori. I carefully cut open the capsule and squeezed the contents over the nori. I let that sit for about 10 minutes so the nori would soak it up. I then added my frozen foods, and a couple drops of my AF fish vitamins, let it defrost. Added a bit of tank water, swirled it around a lot with my baster then broadcast fed the tank with the baster. Try to suck it up from the bottom of your container because the excess oil will make a slick on the water surface, and temporarily effect your skimmer.

 

[Paul B]

Paul where is the best place for blackworms and where do you house them prior to feeding them? Do
You feed them daily?

Yes, I feed them every day and if it were not for live blackworms I would not be in this hobby.
I wrote this just for you.
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/feeding-blackworms-healthy-marine-fish-whiteworms-3124/

And this
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/in-praise-of-fish-oil-6127/

 

[Paul B]

It is the live bacteria in the worm guts. That's where the magic is.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2352039&highlight=garlic
Here's the article on use of garlic. After reading this years ago I won't touch it for my fish.

I don't use garlic, but there are several points in that link I don't agree with. I’ll go along with their numbers to make it easy. I'm going to quote myself here, as this is something I've said before.

"1. Those statement supporting articles are about 100% REPLACING the lipid source with sunflower oil verses fish oil. That right there makes “1.” portion of the the "bad garlic article" unsupported. You cannot compare the results of those studies to the usefulness of garlic supplementation. If you want to prove that, find articles on how garlic supplementation causes lesions, not articles about total sunflower oil replacement. Oils are not 100% interchangeable for data either. The effects of sunflower oil does not equal effects of garlic oil just because they are both terrestrial sources.

2. There's unsupported data in there to try and prove it causes anemia. I have results to the contrary that is more up-to-date than 2005.

Here is some data from a 2012 article. The first row is the amount of garlic they received, the second is the responding hematocrit levels.
0 - 18.2
5 - 23.5
10 - 25.2
15 - 27.2
20 - 26.4

That information comes from….
Talpur, A.D., Ikhwanuddin, M. (2012). Dietary effects of garlic (Allium sativum) on haemato-immunological parameters, survival, growth, and disease resistance against Vibrio harveyu infection in Asian sea bass, L. calcarifer. Aquaculture, 364, 6-12.

BUT, I did read an article, which I have no idea which is was at the moment.... but it said it caused anemia in fish that already had fatty liver disease, but it did not cause it in fish that did not. I would love to find that article again to give it another read. I don't remember the species or the doses.... just thought I'd throw that out there.

3. Garlic is not considered an immunostimulant? I don't agree with this. How can it not be with all the studies supporting it’s positive effects on the immune system. But there are indeed articles that label it as such

Kyo, E. & et al. (1999). Garlic as in immunostimulant. Immunomodultory Agents from Plants. 273-288

Aly, S. M., Mohamed, M. F. (2010) Echinacea purpurea and Allium sativum as immunostimulants in fish culture uing Nile tilapia (Oreochromis niloticus) Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition. 94(5) 31-39.

Shalaby A. M., Khattab Y. A., & Abdel Rahman A. M. (2006) Journal of Venomous Animals and Toxins including Tropical Diseases. 12(2)

Metwally, M. A. A. (2009) Effects of Garlic (Allium sativum) on Some Antioxidant Activities in Tilapia Nilotica (Oreochromis niloticus) World Journal of Fish and Marine Sciences. 1(1) 56-64.

Some articles refer to it as an immunostimulant, others just prove it as such."

 

[MCooper]

This thread is getting more and more informative. Regarding fish oils, are we talking omega 3?
I am a firm believer in the omega 3 oil benefits for dogs and cats, so I would love to know if this is the same for fish and if so what method to give it to them?

 

[Lionfish Lair]

There are a lot of studies going on about marine oils with two of the more important ones being found in Omega 3. We're desperately looking for a replacement to use within the food industry. As the demand for fish has gone up, we've turned more and more to aquacultured fish to meet the needs. Problem is, we need marine fish to feed TO our food fish. There is no where else to get the Omega-3 besides marine sources and we cannot artificially create them.... yet. The marine fish NEED this oil. It's quite a conundrum because you either take fish from the wild to eat directly or you take fish from the wild to feed the fish we want to eat. Either way, we need fish oil and we are running out of sources for it.

I'm going to link to a few of the enrichment powders I use, because their nutritional profiles can be found on the pages.
ALAGMAC 3050
ALAMAC Protein Plus
Spirulina
AstaRose

I also use krill oil.

 

[Paul B]

I also take Krill myself and look how good looking I am!!

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Krill is an awesome AWESOME supplement. I just fear we will over fish that source well.

One thing that can be a pain in the butt about krill is the amount of fluoride it can have.