dtruonggwhs
Community Member
Can you still get BHA when running GFO ? Currently having some BHA when phosphate is showing at 0. My tank had been running for 3 months.
BHA when phosphate is zero
- Thread starter dtruonggwhs
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Sure you can. Those who believe nutrient controls are the sole legitimate way of controlling algae often have hard times making that stick if they begin algae testing threads where a bunch of tanks show up all at once to see if nutrient controls alone will win. At some point, in some tanks, grazing and direct action is required. For some tanks, nutrient controls will work, must be dynamic to win as needed but collected all in one thread about 40-50% of tanks would respond to water-only action like nutrient controls. The rest would proceed on driving the keeper batty. Those ones we like to work on, and collect. The noncompliants
Last edited:
OP
OP
dtruonggwhs
Community Member
What are your thoughts on what action should i take to keep this thing under control ? I do a 30% water change every 2 weeks. However even with water change and manual removal, at the 1 week mark the back wall and overflow box begin to fill up with BHA .
It's clear I'm algae cynic heh
My opinion is based some threads in the marine plants forum here. It's one way we approach algae, not the only or best way. Just a darn nicely documented optional way to simply kill algae like one might kill dandelions.
I advocate never reacting to your nutrients, or nutrient controls, by seeing algae in your tank. You react with your nutrient controls only when your non API nutrient test kits tell you a param is out of whack. Not advocating dumping chems in the tank, am advocating hand scraping it off if one prefers, whatever the manual removal aspect may be.
If you are testing within params, hold course do not change nutrient stripping, this is how you prevent overdoing it and coral bleaching.
When algae is present in spite of good nutrients and balanced light, you kill the algae or hand remove it. Nobody agrees on how to do that either lol
Post full tank shot, details other than the algae matter lets see. Some use natural grazers for the final say
What we use to prevent algae should never be used to remove it, we find that distinction handy
My opinion is based some threads in the marine plants forum here. It's one way we approach algae, not the only or best way. Just a darn nicely documented optional way to simply kill algae like one might kill dandelions.
I advocate never reacting to your nutrients, or nutrient controls, by seeing algae in your tank. You react with your nutrient controls only when your non API nutrient test kits tell you a param is out of whack. Not advocating dumping chems in the tank, am advocating hand scraping it off if one prefers, whatever the manual removal aspect may be.
If you are testing within params, hold course do not change nutrient stripping, this is how you prevent overdoing it and coral bleaching.
When algae is present in spite of good nutrients and balanced light, you kill the algae or hand remove it. Nobody agrees on how to do that either lol
Post full tank shot, details other than the algae matter lets see. Some use natural grazers for the final say
What we use to prevent algae should never be used to remove it, we find that distinction handy
Last edited:
OP
OP
dtruonggwhs
Community Member
My opinion for your tank is based on this thread and the linked threads in it. Many would take different approach. I use this way because we command it like a whip heh.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/page-5
Your tank is great and there's nothing wrong with any param and I don't have to know params to gauge a good portion of the tank history, those pics do well enough. the fact your invader isn't green hair algae means you are on track change nothing nutrient-wise your corals have good color and plants implicated in eutrophication aren't in the pics.
You are missing the natural grazer complement that would eat it. That growth doesn't signify bad, it signifies good reef production and a reef still maturing. It siginifies what grows under artificial lights and the tweaks they bring to natural expressions, combined with no hand grazing done.
Which we should change, clearly in my thread you'd take out rocks, blast clean them, siphon out any upper sandbed waste, hand wipe while siphoning all growth from the inside walls and do a big water change.
Our threads are about work component we do to pay for having done none. My threads aren't about a chem, they are whole tank reworks ideally and it's my opinion you should hand clean your whole reef thoroughly and again later when needed. My reef is running ten years, it gets the same exact brown variants if left unchecked. I hand clean and I'm algae free and work very little to be that way. I allow nothing on my walls, by force and by elected chemical cheat which just amplifies my own work.
Others recommend you hook up plant filters, or more GFO, and it's agreeable to lessen white balance a bit and go bluer for algae clean ups.
Hand cleaning doesn't alter any of those options. It makes you apply them to a clean tank, vs a dirty tank, which changes the game.
If your tank was my tank it would be purely clean and sustained in a week. Id have a uv sterilizer off amazon as a cheat, can be removed later when balance is attained, cuz I wouldn't want to big change water again if preventable. I'd peroxide clean the rocks lightly just initially and fill every space with corals so that polyps take over all surfaces physically excluding all algae. I've literally done that in my own reef in the threads too, for invaders brought in without quarantining
Despite how we constantly mention peroxide in our thread that's not the heart of hand guiding. Hand guiding is chemical free cleaning, disallowance, and then a cheat if you want to amplify your work optionally. You get to clean less when you select the right preventative balances but not before. The degree of chemical cheat ranges, you don't need much. Uv would curb your work massively but few will elect for that so we do other things which are work intensive. Others recommend hooking up algae filters, there is no best way. I use this method above because we can predict to the hour when your tank looks top notch again.
B
http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/page-5
Your tank is great and there's nothing wrong with any param and I don't have to know params to gauge a good portion of the tank history, those pics do well enough. the fact your invader isn't green hair algae means you are on track change nothing nutrient-wise your corals have good color and plants implicated in eutrophication aren't in the pics.
You are missing the natural grazer complement that would eat it. That growth doesn't signify bad, it signifies good reef production and a reef still maturing. It siginifies what grows under artificial lights and the tweaks they bring to natural expressions, combined with no hand grazing done.
Which we should change, clearly in my thread you'd take out rocks, blast clean them, siphon out any upper sandbed waste, hand wipe while siphoning all growth from the inside walls and do a big water change.
Our threads are about work component we do to pay for having done none. My threads aren't about a chem, they are whole tank reworks ideally and it's my opinion you should hand clean your whole reef thoroughly and again later when needed. My reef is running ten years, it gets the same exact brown variants if left unchecked. I hand clean and I'm algae free and work very little to be that way. I allow nothing on my walls, by force and by elected chemical cheat which just amplifies my own work.
Others recommend you hook up plant filters, or more GFO, and it's agreeable to lessen white balance a bit and go bluer for algae clean ups.
Hand cleaning doesn't alter any of those options. It makes you apply them to a clean tank, vs a dirty tank, which changes the game.
If your tank was my tank it would be purely clean and sustained in a week. Id have a uv sterilizer off amazon as a cheat, can be removed later when balance is attained, cuz I wouldn't want to big change water again if preventable. I'd peroxide clean the rocks lightly just initially and fill every space with corals so that polyps take over all surfaces physically excluding all algae. I've literally done that in my own reef in the threads too, for invaders brought in without quarantining
Despite how we constantly mention peroxide in our thread that's not the heart of hand guiding. Hand guiding is chemical free cleaning, disallowance, and then a cheat if you want to amplify your work optionally. You get to clean less when you select the right preventative balances but not before. The degree of chemical cheat ranges, you don't need much. Uv would curb your work massively but few will elect for that so we do other things which are work intensive. Others recommend hooking up algae filters, there is no best way. I use this method above because we can predict to the hour when your tank looks top notch again.
B
Last edited:
OP
OP
dtruonggwhs
Community Member
My opinion for your tank is based on this thread and the linked threads in it. Many would take different approach. I use this way because we command it like a whip heh.
Your tank is great and there's nothing wrong with any param and I don't have to know params to gauge a good portion of the tank history, those pics do well enough.
You are missing the natural grazer complment that would eat it. That growth doesn't signify bad, it signifies good reef production and a reef still maturing. It siginifies what grows under artificial lights and the tweaks they bring to natural expressions, combined with no hand grazing done.
Which we should change, clearly in my thread you'd take out rocks, blast clean them, siphon out any upper sandbed waste, hand wipe while siphoning all growth from the inside walls and do a big water change.
Our threads are about work component we do to pay for having done none. My threads aren't about a chem, they are whole tank reworks ideally and it's my opinion you should hand clean your whole reef throughly and again later when needed. My reef is running ten years, it gets the same exact brown variants if left unchecked. I hand clean and I'm algae free and work very little to be that way. I allow nothing on my walls, by force and by elected chemical cheat which just amplifies my own work.
Others recommend you hook up plant filters, or more GFO, and it's agreeable to lessen white balance a bit and go bluer for algae clean ups.
Hand cleaning doesn't alter any of those options. It makes you apply them to a clean tank, vs a dirty tank, which changes the game.
If your tank was my tank it would be purely clean and sustained in a week. If have a uv sterilizer off amazon as a cheat, can be removed later when balance is attained, cuz I wouldn't want to big change water again if preventable. I'd peroxide clean the rocks and fill every space with corals so that polyps take over all surfaces physically excluding all algae. I've literally done that in my own reef and it literally works and is on file for review any time. All my opinions on algae control are longsome people take this too seriously.
B
Thanks Brandon, guessing its time for some cleaning then. Ill probably get some grazer as you had mentioned. Thanks for the great info.
But there's a catch
If those worked very well, were easy to configure and give return, we'd be using them to fix problem tanks as much. The truth in grazers is, typically 150 random ones bought contribute to bioloading, some die which are triple contributors, and we are left with more hand cleaning.
The trick so you don't have to read 1000 pages is this:
Evaluate everything you'll ever do in the name of algae control off a clean tank, exclusively.
See how that inherently upholds the rule of only using preventatives as preventatives? If you start from a clean slate/hard work Saturday, then any clean up crew member or extra GFo or special triple reverse waterfall algae scrubber deluxe can be truly evaluated.
To see if they prevent grow back, not if they can remove what's there. Removing what's there is for you or a grazer, evaluating preventatives off removal ability sets them up for failure...wrong tool for the job.
Your tank looks great during this evaluation phase of clean/evaulate and clean/evaluate because you don't let it get down. Find the tune, do less work.
People will slow feeding in the name of leaving an invader in the tank on purpose, and corals hate that and stall growth. I refused all growths, feed twice as much, corals fattened up, took over all real estate turning all surfaces into feeding polyp mouths I have to chip out with a screwdriver to prevent taking over, opposite outcome. Repeatable, per threads. Starts with hard work end with low work, algae free the whole time
Enjoy making what you will of that but I promise it's a summary of seven yrs and about a thousand reefs of algae.
If those worked very well, were easy to configure and give return, we'd be using them to fix problem tanks as much. The truth in grazers is, typically 150 random ones bought contribute to bioloading, some die which are triple contributors, and we are left with more hand cleaning.
The trick so you don't have to read 1000 pages is this:
Evaluate everything you'll ever do in the name of algae control off a clean tank, exclusively.
See how that inherently upholds the rule of only using preventatives as preventatives? If you start from a clean slate/hard work Saturday, then any clean up crew member or extra GFo or special triple reverse waterfall algae scrubber deluxe can be truly evaluated.
To see if they prevent grow back, not if they can remove what's there. Removing what's there is for you or a grazer, evaluating preventatives off removal ability sets them up for failure...wrong tool for the job.
Your tank looks great during this evaluation phase of clean/evaulate and clean/evaluate because you don't let it get down. Find the tune, do less work.
People will slow feeding in the name of leaving an invader in the tank on purpose, and corals hate that and stall growth. I refused all growths, feed twice as much, corals fattened up, took over all real estate turning all surfaces into feeding polyp mouths I have to chip out with a screwdriver to prevent taking over, opposite outcome. Repeatable, per threads. Starts with hard work end with low work, algae free the whole time
Enjoy making what you will of that but I promise it's a summary of seven yrs and about a thousand reefs of algae.
Last edited:
OP
OP
dtruonggwhs
Community Member
Its interesting you said that. I had a 125g did not run gfo just had small number of grazer and the tank did wonder. No algae, and i was feeding 2-3 times a day. I need to find the right formula for this one.
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
Staff member
Super Moderator
Excellence Award
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
We must be careful what it means to say zero nitrate or phosphate. All it means is that your kit does not have the ability to detect the levels that are there, and for most kits, that is still more than is present in surface ocean water.
Regardless of what the kit reads, the algae is getting phosphate somehow, and intercepting that phosphate before it gets to the algae can be a good way to help get rid of it. GFO is one way to do that, and so are others. Bear in mind, the reading may be low BECAUSE the algae is taking it up so fast. That's how an algae turf scrubber or macroalgae work, after all, they just do it in a place you'd prefer to grow algae.
So, IMO, the GFO (if present in sufficient amounts and changed sufficiently often) is likely to be helpful.
But, it may not eliminate the problem entirely because some nutrients may be obtained near the surface of the live rock or sand which may be slowly releasing nutrients into the nearby water. It can also be challenging with some types of algae to lower the phosphate sufficiently to kill t he algae and not harm things you want to keep. Corals use phosphate too, and there is no inherent reason to assume you can starve out every type of algae and not starve any corals.
Finally, I certainly agree that biological control can be the best way. A fish or some other creature that eats that algae can eliminate algae problems that are just quite problematic. I have controlled severe caulerpa problems with a foxface, for example.
Elegance Coral
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2014
- Messages
- 560
- Reaction score
- 677
You have a very young tank. I really wouldn't worry to much. Clean it up, siphon out the algae, throw in a couple of snails, change some water, keep the GFO changed out, and this should pass.
Much of the nutrients fueling this algae are likely to be coming from the rocks and/or sand. In an otherwise clean tank, with time, this source of nutrients should be depleted, and the problem solved. Be patient.
Much of the nutrients fueling this algae are likely to be coming from the rocks and/or sand. In an otherwise clean tank, with time, this source of nutrients should be depleted, and the problem solved. Be patient.
