Big Tank stocking list and fish/invert Plan - questions about stocking rules and compatibility

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Apologies in advance for a long and probably rambling post, please bear with me.

I have narrowed down my mixed reef system to two tanks and system details, as well as gone over some of the wrasse and fish guides to try and narrow down my stocking list/plan. I've narrowed my list some but haven't finalized any decisions yet and would appreciate more experienced eyes to give this a look. Feedback always welcome and appreciated.

Tank options:
DIY Acrylic - 120"x48"x48" roughly 1,200 gallons DT volume (this is my dream/ideal tank and the one I am shooting for)
Glass cages - 130"x37.5"x36.5" roughly 730 gallons DT volume

There will be heavy filtration as I like fish in my reef and I like to feed my fish. Filtration will include roller fleece system of some kind, two "smaller" skimmers (each capable of handling 50 to 60% of system volume on its own - redundancy), algae reactor (undersized since there will be a 'fuge but scalable - add another if needed), a 'fuge with LR, sand, and fun macro algae (red gracilaria, dragons tongue, and blue hypnea - might set up as a separate DT inspired by an old coworker 'K' who taught me about Nishikigoi and a little about the philosophy of Japanese planted tanks).

One of the closed loops will run UV and there will be intermittent carbon usage.

System will be supported by a calcium reactor and kalk.

The livestock will be supported by manual feeding (frozen, etc.) in the AM and the PM with a mix of auto feed during the day (Apex and their auto feeders have my brain running 100mph)

The tank is going to have 4 or five main/large rock features (think islands and ridgelines) built from LR and Marco (mix of foundation, shelf, and reg) to provide lots of swimming space and hiding spots/ territory. There will also be a 6" DSB in the display tank.

Tank/Stocking Philosophy:
The goal for this tank is to create layers in my aquascape front to back and left to right so much that people say "Wow how big is that tank" rather than "That is a big tank" by breaking out of some of the normal aquascaping habits and creating depth and interest.

If all goes right I'd like the stocking list to do the same. Small, med, and large fish. Bottom dwellers, mid water, and upper/open water swimmers. As well as a good mix of color.

Questions:
Is the tank big enough to start breaking rules about mixing conspecifics? I.e. Pseudochromis, Basslets, Dwarf Angels, etc.

What stocking rules can I break/can’t I break

Stocked in order of least aggression to most aggressive but what about those that need “mature” systems?

Is this list ludicrous???

What questions did I forget? (I had a whole list to start a conversation and then my brain went blank)

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Must Haves:
*Captive Bred when available*
Eel(s)
Pair – Genicanthus angel
Pair – Xanthichthys trigger (bluejaw, etc.)
Chevron Tang
Indian Ocean Lyretail Anthis (x__?)
Bangaii Cardinal
Pair – Bella Goby
Orchid Dottyback
Aptasia Eating Filefish

Options (meaning I do not want to put ALL these fish in the tank, these are just what I am considering) -
Dwarf Angels:
Coral Beauty – Captive Bred
Flame
Pygmy
FlameBack
Lemon Peel
?? – Potters
?? – Golden

Angels:
Regal
?? - Other large

Anthias:
-How many? Mix – male vs. female?
Lyretail
Ignitus
Bartletts
Princess

Basslet:
Royal Gramma
?? – Black Cap

Blenny:
Lawnmower
Starry
?? - Canary – Captive Bred

Butterfly:
Yellow Pyramid x___?
?? – Copperband

Cardinal:
?? - Blue Streak x___?

Chromis:
?? – Blue-green Axil

Clown:
-Looking for a calmer pair
Pair – Cinnamon
Pair – Skunk

Dart:
-Not sure which or mix
Helfrichi x__?
Exquisite x__?
Purple x__?

Dottybacks:
-Can I have more than 1 in this size tank? I always recommended one
Neon
?? - Splendid
?? – Springeri

Dragonet:
Red Scooter – Captive Bred
?? – Mandarin – Captive Bred
?? – Ruby Red

Eel:
Zebra
-or-
Snowflake
Golden Dwarf

Goby:
Neon – Captive Bred x__?
Pair – Dracula Goby (w/ shrimp)
Clown (yellow?)
Yasha White Ray Shrimp Goby (w/ shrimp) (pair?)
Sleeper goby (if no yellow headed jawfish)
?? – Rainfords
?? – Hectors
?? – Court Jester
Jawfish:
Blue Dot
Yellowhead (if no sleeper goby)

Tangs:
Blonde Naso
Yellow x__?
Purple x__?
?? - Desjardini Sailfin
Convict
Two Spot Bristletooth (or other cool bristletooth)
?? – Blue Hippo

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Sorry, my formatting exploded when I tried to bring this over from Word (tried to have it make sense) so it is all chopped up!!

Hope it makes sense!

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Wrasses:

I tried using the chart and guides in the sticky posts to narrow things down but given this list is the “narrowed down” version I need help! Also, I’d like to keep as many different types to fill different niches (and eat as many pests) as possible.

Cirrhilabrus: (would like a group – different males?? But how many and which)
Blue Throat Fairy
Orangeback Fairy
Hooded Fairy
Lunate Fairy*
Splendid Fairy*
Ruby Longfin Fairy
Lineatus Fairy
Whip Fin Fairy
Red Velvet Fairy
Naokos Fairy

Paracheilinius: (would like a group – different males?? But how many and which)
Carpenters Flasher
McCoskers Flasher
Blue Flasher
Yellowfin flasher
Filamented Flasher
Linespot Flasher

Marcopharyngodon: (one of these - can I do male/females?)
!! – Choats Red Leopard
Kuiters Leaopard
Ornate Leopard

Haliocheres:
Melanurus
Grey Head
!! – Dusky
Radiant
?? – Yellow
?? – Yellow & Purple

Other:
Six Line
!! – Mystery
?? - Red Tamarin

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Inverts:
-What am I missing (CUC) and what shouldn’t I include?
?? - Long Tentacle Anemone
?? – Sebae Anemone
?? – Bubble Tip Anemone
Dwarf hermits
Emerald Crabs
?? – Pom Pom crab
Porcelain anemone crabs
Blue Porcelain crabs
Acro crabs
?? – Arrow crab (probably not but they are cool looking)
?? – Peppermint Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp (with gobies)
Coral Banded(s) Shrimp
Skunk Cleaner shrimp
!! - Fire shrimp
?? - Anemone shrimp
?? – Other cleaner shrimp
?? - Linkia star
?? – Red/blue tuxedo urchin – captive bread (if glass aquarium)
?? – Purple Short Spin urchin (if glass aquarium)
Nassarius snails
Cerith snails
Banded Trochus snails
?? - Bumble Bee snails

SPS:
-Good mix of form factors and color, fancy names not important
Monti – plating, branching, and encrusting(?)
Acro
?? - Seriatopora
Porites
Stylopora
?? – Pavona

LPS:
Lords – Acan/Micromusa
Duncan
?? – Button Scoly (red)
?? - Favia & Favites – depending on color form (some awesome, some not)
?? – Lobophylia
Torch
Hammer
?? – Frogspawn

Other:
Zoas (small islands)

BackToTheReef · Sep 5, 2020

Sorry again for being longwinded and multiple posts. Getting it all on "paper" helps my thought process.

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

ooof....I think I need a Google Sheets database for all of this info haha. Preferably listing the fish by family in rows (row 1: butterflyfish, row 2: cirrilabrus wrasses, etc.) and with must have fish in cells listed as green.... Let's give this a shot. I'm splitting my responses by topic, so you can quote and ask questions based off of topic, as opposed to megaposting.

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Conspecifics in the tank: Usually, I've heard the anecdote that around 180 gallons is the size when small fish (5" or less) stop harassing too many conspecifics. Fish like firefish, and clownfish species. Would I do it with tangs? Given what I've seen in multiple members tanks so far, probably. Maybe not with the big ones that breach 1'8" (or, 1/6 of the tank length).

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Eels/Triggerfish and CUC/Invertebrates: Will probably eat invertebrates. It really, really depends on the eel though. Fanged morays (think dragon morays, and their teeth) will probably nom on smaller fish, while blunt-tooth morays (snowflake eels, which kinda have rounded teeth) will nom on the smaller invertebrates. Larger triggers may go after the urchins and other "crunchy" inverts. Although cleaner shrimp will probably be safe. So keeping count of how many (relatively) CUC inverts you still have is going to be hard to keep up with.

That being said...you'd need a veritable army of hermits/snails to combat any algal/detritus problems you have in the tank long term. I see you have a lot of tangs listed, as well as bella gobies. That's great! You basically have a fish CUC, which is far less prone to being eaten.

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Question you forgot: Is this fish, going to eat or harass any of my other planned corals? Or will my corals eat/harass any of my planned other stock?

It may be useful to just "buckle down" and individually research each fish and invert. Take note of if they're considered reef safe, reef safe with caution, or FOWLR only. And ask why they're that way. Is it because the dottybacks are micropredators in the wild and won't hesitate to munch on small shrimp like anemone and peppermint shrimp? Or is it because the dragonet is simply too slow, and easily catchable by anemones?

Question you forgot: Am I going to make sure to quarantine? An ich or velvet outbreak from any added water into the tank is going to be devastating towards your fish population, and you're not going to be able to just net out all...13+ ~30 or so fish and pop them into a spare 10' tank. You're going to need to monitor fish carefully, or prophylactically treat for the bigger diseases. Of note will be Uronema (chromis just can't handle it for some reason), Cryptocaryon (ich), and Amyloodinium (velvet). Preferably, quarantine will be in a different room, as well as have its own little mixing station (doesn't have to be pretty, or large, just functional) and dedicated equipment.

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Dottyback conspecifics: You can almost certainly have more than one of the same species (preferably 2), since they can pair up. If you go with one of each, you might even end up with a mixed species pair (and that means hybrid babies!!!), which is exciting. Now, whether you can keep more than 2 in a 10' long tank of fish that reach maximum 5"....¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But my money is on "yes"

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Macroalgae: you didn't have questions here. I just wanted to add in that you should look into Botryocladia and Ulva, as well as Caulerpa prolifera. I really, really, really love macros in saltwater systems.

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Mature systems vs. Stocking order + Aggression: This depends on the fish....sorry! With such a big project (it's a 10' tank)...you're gonna have time. I'm fairly certain that you can keep stocking peaceful fish until the 1 year mark for the tank to mature enough to add in the Macropharyngodons and Dragonets...as well as the regal angelfish

JumboShrimp · Sep 6, 2020

I realize you’re building a very large tank (120” x 48” x 48”), but your stocking list seemed like you looked at the ocean and said, ‘I’ll take one of everything!’ Lol. What about all the other ‘Must Haves’ you see in the fish store along the way, not to mention the impulse-purchases? You might want to trim it down a bit— but just my opinion. Let’s see some great photos as you get farther down the line. Best wishes!

ichthyogeek · Sep 6, 2020

Dosing: You're going to need quite a lot of dosing to keep up with not just calcium and alkalinity in the tank. Something people always forget, is that photosynthesis requires magnesium. Not only is it the corals that photosynthesize, but those macros you want, which can easily outcompete the corals, are also sopping up magnesium like no tomorrow. While other elements like nitrogen and phosphorus will be very much in excess, keep in mind that trace elements can and most likely will be soaked up faster than an RODI spill the 2 minutes before the family gets home.

BackToTheReef · Sep 6, 2020

ichthyogeek said:
ooof....I think I need a Google Sheets database for all of this info haha. Preferably listing the fish by family in rows (row 1: butterflyfish, row 2: cirrilabrus wrasses, etc.) and with must have fish in cells listed as green.... Let's give this a shot. I'm splitting my responses by topic, so you can quote and ask questions based off of topic, as opposed to megaposting.

Funny you mention this. I saw a chart some one made for their fish list. I am totally making a spreadsheet for myself. Yep, sorry about the megaposting, kinda how my brain works. I wanted to be concise and too the point but end up with the pumps turned up to 100% and too much flow! lol

BackToTheReef · Sep 6, 2020

ichthyogeek said:
Question you forgot: Is this fish, going to eat or harass any of my other planned corals? Or will my corals eat/harass any of my planned other stock?

It may be useful to just "buckle down" and individually research each fish and invert. Take note of if they're considered reef safe, reef safe with caution, or FOWLR only. And ask why they're that way. Is it because the dottybacks are micropredators in the wild and won't hesitate to munch on small shrimp like anemone and peppermint shrimp? Or is it because the dragonet is simply too slow, and easily catchable by anemones?

Question you forgot: Am I going to make sure to quarantine? An ich or velvet outbreak from any added water into the tank is going to be devastating towards your fish population, and you're not going to be able to just net out all...13+ ~30 or so fish and pop them into a spare 10' tank. You're going to need to monitor fish carefully, or prophylactically treat for the bigger diseases. Of note will be Uronema (chromis just can't handle it for some reason), Cryptocaryon (ich), and Amyloodinium (velvet). Preferably, quarantine will be in a different room, as well as have its own little mixing station (doesn't have to be pretty, or large, just functional) and dedicated equipment.

So I guess I considered QT was a given. My plan is to QT everything on arrival (adding in "batches' from least aggro/most passive to most aggro. Same with coral and inverts - least sensitive to most as system matures but none early). Plan is to try nd get everything small, I want to see it grow, and use a combo of 20Ls and 40Bs to isolate, observe, get eating, then treat everyone - FW dip on arrival (?), Observe & get eating, copper, Prazi, then observe while running UV (making sure copper and prazi are gone via WCs and carbon before UV)

Well I tried to look at reef reef safe or "with caution" but there are a few I'd like to see if I can fudge - the eels with inverts like shrimp crabs, will keeping them well feed help was what I asked myself. It has in the past. The regal or other large angel - typically hammer LPS and clams, is it a risk I want to take...maybe. It seems like the general consensus is if i can get enough colonies established and doing well, their grazing might not affect.

Totally didn't know dotty's would hammer shrimp. We always recommended them as reef safe but they could be mean little buggers (same with basslets - RGs and Blk Caps)

BackToTheReef · Sep 6, 2020

JumboShrimp said:
I realize you’re building a very large tank (120” x 48” x 48”), but your stocking list seemed like you looked at the ocean and said, ‘I’ll take one of everything!’ Lol. What about all the other ‘Must Haves’ you see in the fish store along the way, not to mention the impulse-purchases? You might want to trim it down a bit— but just my opinion. Let’s see some great photos as you get farther down the line. Best wishes!

I took a look at Live Aquaria since they have the most fish types and descriptions "posted" then said to myself what do I like and what might work. Now I am trying to whittle down to what will actually work. I am going to have one tank so I need it to be as all in one as I can. This was the starting point, definitely not the end.

Like I said, I don't want to add all in the list but find combos of what I do like that will likely fit what I want to do and work together.

BackToTheReef · Sep 6, 2020

ichthyogeek said:
Dosing: You're going to need quite a lot of dosing to keep up with not just calcium and alkalinity in the tank. Something people always forget, is that photosynthesis requires magnesium. Not only is it the corals that photosynthesize, but those macros you want, which can easily outcompete the corals, are also sopping up magnesium like no tomorrow. While other elements like nitrogen and phosphorus will be very much in excess, keep in mind that trace elements can and most likely will be soaked up faster than an RODI spill the 2 minutes before the family gets home.

I'm going to run mag media in the calcium reactor as well but do plan on a healthy dosing regime. Thinking about also setting up a coral "feeding" system with dosers to add nutrients and aminos periodically throughout the day at times when a natural reef would see surges in nutrients along with changes in flow.

That's the goal at least.