Biome Cycling idea

[Tenelen]

So, I am about to start cycling a new tank and I wanted to see thoughts on this for optimal biome cycle. So I am wanting to do the following.

Dry Rock
Live Sand
Aquaforest AF life source (a moderate amount mixed in with the sand)
Dr. Tims

My goal is looking to hit a good biodiversity and a solid beneficial bacterial population. I watched the whole series on the Biome Cycling and I heard Ryan Batcheller from BRSTV talk about possibly mixing Aquaforest AF into the sand, but no further details. Has anyone tried this or a similar method and what was the outcome? I am not looking for opinions on the products I am using I am more interested in the actual science behind the method and if this will help establish a healthy diverse bacterial colony.

 

[Jekyl]

I would still pick ocean direct sand or rock over anything that comes in a bottle. In the end, BRS is a company and their videos are advertising.

 

[LiverockRocks Verified Sponsor]

Optimal biome cycle would come from ocean farmed rock and sand. Dry rock, bagged sand and bottle bacteria can’t compete with Mother Nature.

 

[Tenelen]

Optimal biome cycle would come from ocean farmed rock and sand. Dry rock, bagged sand and bottle bacteria can’t compete with Mother Nature.

Yes, I understand that point but this option is out of my budget and I already have all listed above. Again I am not looking for opinions on the best method I am looking for Information on if someone has tried this method and what the success rate was.

 

[Jekyl]

Yes, I understand that point but this option is out of my budget and I already have all listed above. Again I am not looking for opinions on the best method I am looking for Information on if someone has tried this method and what the success rate was.

What outcome are you hoping for with this method? I'd have to imagine it will be the same scenario as everyone else who uses dead rock and bottled bacteria.

Generally you don't hear much difference in which product used besides time until fish can be introduced. As far as maturity and diversity, there isn't a product that can subvert time and nature.

 

[exnisstech]

I did a dry rock barebottom start up February 2023 using fritz 900. It's been a struggle. Just look at all the how do I get rid of this algae posts and I think you'll find your answers

 

[RocketEngineer]

So, I am about to start cycling a new tank and I wanted to see thoughts on this for optimal biome cycle. So I am wanting to do the following.

Dry Rock
Live Sand
Aquaforest AF life source (a moderate amount mixed in with the sand)
Dr. Tims

My goal is looking to hit a good biodiversity and a solid beneficial bacterial population. I watched the whole series on the Biome Cycling and I heard Ryan Batcheller from BRSTV talk about possibly mixing Aquaforest AF into the sand, but no further details. Has anyone tried this or a similar method and what was the outcome? I am not looking for opinions on the products I am using I am more interested in the actual science behind the method and if this will help establish a healthy diverse bacterial colony.

I’m looking into something when I finally get my setup going. I used dry rock to create my aquascape and bagged sand. Once I can finally get going, I’m going to place a small order from one of the live rock sellers for just a handful of true live sand and live rock, then let that seed my system. That may be an option vs going the expensive route.

 

[Jekyl]

I’m looking into something when I finally get my setup going. I used dry rock to create my aquascape and bagged sand. Once I can finally get going, I’m going to place a small order from one of the live rock sellers for just a handful of true live sand and live rock, then let that seed my system. That may be an option vs going the expensive route.

I started with mostly dry rock and dead crushed coral substrate. After which I added live rock and live sand from 3 different LFS in the area.

I never had any issue with cycle and nutrients and progression happened as with anyone else's experience. In the end everything that wasn't mature still went through the exact same timeline as if I hadn't added the live materials.

Still had a long ugly phase (months 7-11 were the worst) that I don't feel was really impacted. In the end anything dead will have to go through the same to reach maturity. Will be the last time I use dry rock.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

While AF life source if talking about the mud substance will add diversity. But because our tanks are enclosed, you will need to constantly add sources to keep a more distributed diversity. These organisms and micro fauna will compete and one some will out compete others. As you add corals and such your diversity and support will change causing constant fluctuations. There was a few threads that actually discussed this.

 

[Dburr1014]

So, I am about to start cycling a new tank and I wanted to see thoughts on this for optimal biome cycle. So I am wanting to do the following.

Dry Rock
Live Sand
Aquaforest AF life source (a moderate amount mixed in with the sand)
Dr. Tims

My goal is looking to hit a good biodiversity and a solid beneficial bacterial population. I watched the whole series on the Biome Cycling and I heard Ryan Batcheller from BRSTV talk about possibly mixing Aquaforest AF into the sand, but no further details. Has anyone tried this or a similar method and what was the outcome? I am not looking for opinions on the products I am using I am more interested in the actual science behind the method and if this will help establish a healthy diverse bacterial colony.

You would be better off :

1) Rinsing the sand until no cloud dust storm(no, you will not rinse all the live bacteria away with tap water) and final rinse in rodi or saltwater to displace the tap water.
2) buy 1 or 2 LIVE rocks from your LFS. The ones they keep wet in a tub.

 

[KC2020]

So, I am about to start cycling a new tank and I wanted to see thoughts on this for optimal biome cycle. So I am wanting to do the following.

Dry Rock
Live Sand
Aquaforest AF life source (a moderate amount mixed in with the sand)
Dr. Tims

My goal is looking to hit a good biodiversity and a solid beneficial bacterial population.

I set up a WB20 on March 1st with 20 lbs of ocean direct live sand, about 15 lbs of dry rock and I use natural sea water. After 2 weeks I then added Dr. Tim's and ammonia and it processed the ammonia in 48 hours. A week later I added about a tablespoon of Aquaforest life source mud that I broke down in a container of tank water first. I've done this every week for a month. I won't be adding it to the sand and there's very little visible in the tank. I've added small doses of ammonia every week.

I just added copepods and I'm dosing phytoplankton daily.

Currently I have no ammonia, no nitrites and nitrates are 21, after 60 days.

I've been in this hobby for over 40 years and from my experience diversifying the sources of useful bacteria is worth the trouble. I've found this approach minimized the potential for GHA or Diatoms. I typically see little or no ugly stage.

I've also kept the tank dark so far. Before I turn them on I'll do a 30% water change and then start an Algae Scrubber.

When I start adding corals they will be yet another host of beneficial bacteria and based on my experience they will all acclimate quickly and easily.

I'm in no hurry and the benefits I've seen having taken this approach for years have been worth it.

 

[brandon429]

this above doesn't help your biome, it merely establishes simple ammonia controls. the diversity comes from the items you stock; not what you buy from a bottle. af lifesource/not helpful/not diverse/it's among common bottle bac popular things for sale but it doesnt help your biome much compared to using cured live rock. if you want biome help, cycle a different way, use cured live rocks.

 

[KC2020]

this above doesn't help your biome, it merely establishes simple ammonia controls. the diversity comes from the items you stock; not what you buy from a bottle. af lifesource/not helpful/not diverse/it's among common bottle bac popular things for sale but it doesnt help your biome much compared to using cured live rock. if you want biome help, cycle a different way, use cured live rocks.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you always chime in and want to be the authority. When you post contradicting statements and your pseudo-science is challenged then you pivot.

So you have fun. I won't be wasting any more time to reply to you.

 

[brandon429]

the aim is to sway you away from for-cost testing (aquabiomics for example) and things from them, or a bottle, designed to 'boost' your microbiome

the coral frags you add will do more for that directly than anything AB tries to sell you

microbiome is a buzzword from the last 2 years in reefing that will be used to take your money: be ware.

If you add one simple large chunk of your pet store's most prized cured coralline live rock, that would boost your biome more than anything you can do. AB sells 'tested' live rock rubble, for a markup: my warning is to stay away from them and get it from your pet store

not one time in all your reefing will you need to pay for an aquabiomics biome assessment; however it's likely you will and it won't be of any harm, but it won't help either. You cannot use an aquabiomics report to do anything with your reef tank, it provides no data you can apply a counter-measure towards. don't get tricked into the buzzwords, welcome to reefing

 

[lil sumpin]

I'd check out local forums, pages, maybe there's a Houston sub group in here somewhere but find some local reefers who are selling frags and such. Find some folks with established, 10+ year old tanks and if they're able to sell you some low stakes frags of coral like xenia, zoas or shrooms you're set to create that robust microbiome.

 

[Jekyl]

Still need to know desired outcome. It all seems like trying to figure out a way to get around maturity, which can't really happen.

 

[brandon429]

right now on the main news sites they're talking about discoveries that vitamin D-heavy diets have this or that microbiome shift on the human gut microbiome, which in the end impacts human health in various ways and I believe it does. But I don't believe we can control it much, we're barely in the detection phase, tying it all together for actionable measures will take another X years and a billion bucks collectively funded.

the term 'microbiome' is coming to take everyone's cash he he it'll be a strong sales trigger word.

the sellers found the working bait again.

we will pay to be part of the beta testing phase, because we simply cannot avoid giving money to hit terms of the day in the hopes it will make our tanks run better.

I'm not against 'biome sampling and reaction permanently, just for these next few years. My peers will fund it all, I'll read about it's journey to real controls in place and then I'll get in on the gig at the very end once the benefits are locked in.


I just had some RTN happen in my prized green monti


getting a DNA test was not an option, because I had caused that burn mark by feeding my tank heavily and then just letting it rot a few extra days out of sheer reef laziness. That's now been corrected, I cleaned the tank, the patch will heal by June. I will never need my tank DNA sampled but there will come a time I'll be interested just to see what it says, much later in the game.

 

[Jekyl]

I just feel like any of this talk is like planning a tree and calling it a forest.

 

[brandon429]

I have already met several reefers who thought they could not correctly navigate cycling or initial stocking approaches without a dna test from ab, this is just predicting the coming swell that's all based on small trend detections in the field.

the articles about it are powerful sales tools

the talks and the forum sections dedicated to it. For-cost DNA sampling will be very powerful and likely beneficial in 2029, but today?

we r paying for the beta testing phase/low correlation to outcomes.

I feel it's very fair-market to try and balance claims I feel are being made on the other side that are premature, and very profitable.


reef2reef provides free cycling troubleshoots with no dna testing and perfect outcomes for as many pages as we want to verify per umpire, that too is a fair market balance in action. sometimes free stuff is great science, free.

 

[brandon429]

I still think LFS distributors are missing out on not selling us consumers 1 ounce samples of real reef water from across the globe. that's true microbiome alteration.

I'm not joking I would pay about 20 bucks for tight-qc controlled samples shipped and handled internationally meant for reef tank inoculating. I'd put some fijiian samples in my reef and some samples from other places currently showing strong growth trends and no bleaching.

that would be sick: you have the apps that research live time where the strongest reefs in nature are, and you sell shots of that water to hungry consumers. I'd try some.