Biota regal angel, yes or no?

[bruno3047]

Apologies, I semi addressed it in the next response but due to the genetics of the original parents having overlap of yellow and grey bellies it's highly likely that offspring can vary. Meaning the only way to be 100% sure and separate gold and grey bellies is to grow them out for a few months which wouldn't be economical for the breeder, us, or the hobbyists purchasing them. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as clownfish where phenotypic traits are displayed just after settlement and we've learned even future selected breeding of F1 and F2 generations don't always yield the results in the offspring (Sunrise Coral Beauty, Orange Mandarins, White yellow tang).

Obviously the sure way to segregate the offspring would be to segregate the parents,. Wouldn’t two yellow bellied parents yield yellow bellied offspring? That’s what I was driving at. Is that what you mean when you say it’s not economical? That it would be too expensive to maintain separate sets of parents for each individual sub species? It just seem to me that if you could maintain breeding conditions for a mixed subspecies group of regal Angelfish, you could just as easily maintain breeding conditions for segregated groups by sub species of Regal Angelfish.

 

[Oredigger77]

Nice. Any trouble getting them to eat?

Nope. They were eating within a couple of hours of being in the tank but I just used the pellets that they were eating from Marine Collectors. Once I introduced them to frozen foods they went crazy and now I alternate between pellets and a variety of frozen. The only thing they haven't been interested in is the nori that I put in the tank and all three of them ignore it.

They were also the first fish I put in my display and they had two weeks by themselves to get comfortable. I probably overfeed my tank to make sure that food blows into the caves that the shy one hides in. I know other people have had issues with them being outcompeted by larger established fish in the tank.

 

[Biota_Marine]

Obviously the sure way to segregate the offspring would be to segregate the parents,. Wouldn’t two yellow bellied parents yield a yellow bellied offspring? That’s what I was driving at. Is that what you mean when you say it’s not economical? That it would be too expensive to maintain separate sets of parents for each individual sub species? It just seem to me that if you could maintain breeding conditions for a mixed subspecies group of regal Angelfish, you could just as easily maintain breeding conditions for segregated groups by sub species of regal Angelfish.

Unfortunately, having 2 yellow belly parents wouldn't necessarily lead to 100% yellow belly offspring which is the issue at hand. I couldn't and wouldn't sell them to customers knowing there is variation just like with our current juveniles. The not economical aspect would be growing them out to a size to be certain they would display that trait. That's why I mentioned clownfish showing phenotypic traits just after settlement. If you were to have Orange x Darwin clownfish pair a percentage will be mocha, percentage orange, percentage Darwin, and various striping. You can separate them immediately and assess and sell as those types but it's not that simple in species that display these traits later in life.

 

[bruno3047]

Unfortunately, having 2 yellow belly parents wouldn't necessarily lead to 100% yellow belly offspring which is the issue at hand. I couldn't and wouldn't sell them to customers knowing there is variation just like with our current juveniles. The not economical aspect would be growing them out to a size to be certain they would display that trait. That's why I mentioned clownfish showing phenotypic traits just after settlement. If you were to have Orange x Darwin clownfish pair a percentage will be mocha, percentage orange, percentage Darwin, and various striping. You can separate them immediately and assess and sell as those types but it's not that simple in species that display these traits later in life.

I find that to be confusing. All the Regal Angelfish from the Red Sea are yellow bellied. There isn’t a mix of yellow and gray belly Regal Angelfish in the Red Sea. So I find it difficult to believe that two yellow bellied parents from the Red Sea would yield a mix of yellow bellied and gray bellied offspring. I think I’m making sense. Aren’t I?

 

[Zionas]

Is Sumatra part of the Indian Ocean or the Pacific?

 

[Oredigger77]

I find that to be confusing. All the Regal Angelfish from the Red Sea are yellow bellied. There isn’t a mix of yellow and gray belly Regal Angelfish in the Red Sea. So I find it difficult to believe that two yellow bellied parents from the Red Sea would yield a mix of yellow bellied and gray bellied offspring. I think I’m making sense. Aren’t I?

It think what you're missing is that in this region regals carry both genetics. Let's say that yellow belly is the dominant gene and you grab two yellow bellies that have a 50/50 yellow grey split genetics. 25% of their offspring would be yellow bellies with 100% yellow belly DNA, 50% would be yellow bellies with 50/50 DNA and 25% would be grey bellies with 100% grey DNA. There is no way to look at the babies to tell which is which so there is a 25% chance any baby you grab will be a grey.

 

[bruno3047]

It think what you're missing is that in this region regals carry both genetics. Let's say that yellow belly is the dominant gene and you grab two yellow bellies that have a 50/50 yellow grey split genetics. 25% of their offspring would be yellow bellies with 100% yellow belly DNA, 50% would be yellow bellies with 50/50 DNA and 25% would be grey bellies with 100% grey DNA. There is no way to look at the babies to tell which is which so there is a 25% chance any baby you grab will be a grey.

Then maybe you need to harvest your breeding parents from areas that do not have a 50-50 gene mix in their DNA. Like from the Red Sea.

 

[albano]

Is Sumatra part of the Indian Ocean or the Pacific?

Despite the different regional names, there is only one ocean on this planet

 

[bruno3047]

It think what you're missing is that in this region regals carry both genetics. Let's say that yellow belly is the dominant gene and you grab two yellow bellies that have a 50/50 yellow grey split genetics. 25% of their offspring would be yellow bellies with 100% yellow belly DNA, 50% would be yellow bellies with 50/50 DNA and 25% would be grey bellies with 100% grey DNA. There is no way to look at the babies to tell which is which so there is a 25% chance any baby you grab will be a grey.

Please see this graphic from one of the top fish retailers in the country showing the coloration differences between the various regions.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I find that to be confusing. All the Regal Angelfish from the Red Sea are yellow bellied. There isn’t a mix of yellow and gray belly Regal Angelfish in the Red Sea. So I find it difficult to believe that two yellow bellied parents from the Red Sea would yield a mix of yellow bellied and gray bellied offspring. I think I’m making sense. Aren’t I?

I understand where you're coming from and you or other breeders are welcome to try but based on previous experience and knowledge of genetics I'd be hesitant to believe someone guaranteeing the adult coloration of a fish that metamorphoses similarly how I let customers know the barring may change over time. There are other factors at play like collection, environmental aspects, predation, ect in these areas.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I understand where you're coming from and you or other breeders are welcome to try but based on previous experience and knowledge of genetics I'd be hesitant to believe someone guaranteeing the adult coloration of a fish that metamorphoses similarly how I let customers know the barring may change over time. There are other factors at play like collection, environmental aspects, predation, ect in these areas.

In short if I were to collect a fish from the graphic below that is 100% showing the attributes you're suggesting I would not guarantee the offspring would be 100% that coloration.

 

[bruno3047]

In short if I were to collect a fish from the graphic below that is 100% showing the attributes you're suggesting I would not guarantee the offspring would be 100% that coloration.

I’m sorry but that makes no sense at all. If that were the case then you would have a mix of yellow and gray belly Regal Angelfish in the Red Sea, which you do not have. And in the Maldives, which you do not have. Thank you for your time.

 

[areefer01]

I’m sorry but that makes no sense at all. If that were the case then you would have a mix of yellow and gray belly Regal Angelfish in the Red Sea, which you do not have. And in the Maldives, which you do not have. Thank you for your time.

With all due respect how many marine fish are you currently breeding that isn't a clownfish.

I honestly don't understand why you are arguing with a team that is doing it. Staton attitude or not put up or shut up.

 

[Cheese Griller]

With all due respect how many marine fish are you currently breeding that isn't a clownfish.

I honestly don't understand why you are arguing with a team that is doing it. Staton attitude or not put up or shut up

Exactly.

And i've normally found that people that use being from a certain place as an excuse to be rude to not be worth time arguing with either. This user seems to be incapable of accepting this monumentos success and moving on with their day without touting their beliefs that the color of the bellies of these fish make them any less exciting. Kinda reminds me of the Dr. Seuss story of the sneeches LOL

 

[bruno3047]

With all due respect how many marine fish are you currently breeding that isn't a clownfish.

I honestly don't understand why you are arguing with a team that is doing it. Staton attitude or not put up or shut up.

I never professed to be a breeder. I just have a problem with what I perceive to be something other than the truth. My argument is based on science. His argument is not based on science. End of discussion.

 

[bruno3047]

Exactly.

And i've normally found that people that use being from a certain place as an excuse to be rude to not be worth time arguing with either. This user seems to be incapable of accepting this monumentos success and moving on with their day without touting their beliefs that the color of the bellies of these fish make them any less exciting. Kinda reminds me of the Dr. Seuss story of the sneeches LOL

Luckily for me, I don’t have to refer to an old Dr. Seuss story to make my point. My arguments are based on science and facts. Have a nice day.

 

[Cheese Griller]

Luckily for me, I don’t have to refer to an old Dr. Seuss story to make my point. My arguments are based on science and facts. Have a nice day.

Luckily for me, I can see this achievement as an excitement rather than an opportunity to nitpick. To you as well

 

[areefer01]

I never professed to be a breeder. I just have a problem with what I perceive to be something other than the truth. My argument is based on science. His argument is not based on science. End of discussion.

Your argument is based on assumptions. Their answers are based on facts. They are actually breeding and/or raising them through grow out to selling to the public.

Maybe you do know more so feel free to give it a try...

 

[bruno3047]

Your argument is based on assumptions. Their answers are based on facts. They are actually breeding and/or raising them through grow out to selling to the public.

Maybe you do know more so feel free to give it a try...

I’m just saying that if you take two Regal Angelfish from the Red Sea, there is a 100% probability that they are going to be yellow bellied. And if those two angelfish mate, the offspring have a 100% probability of being yellow bellied. Any variations from this scientific fact is just BS. Thank you.

 

[bruno3047]

By the way. They initially marketed those CB Regals as “yellow bellied”. When they found that their science and methods were flawed and they were maturing as gray bellies, they had to change their description to just plain “Regals.” I’m not saying that what they did was not a great thing. It was.. But their arguments as to why they can’t breed yellow bellied Regals and be 100% sure that they’re yellow bellied doesn’t hold water. Enough with this now.