Birdsnest tissue loss...help!

[mcarroll]

Is the coral-algae symbiosis really ‘mutually beneficial’ for the partners?

This is a quote regarding bleaching (bold mine):

Several environmental factors favour increased zooxanthellae densities (particularly on a per host cell basis), including: (i) elevated nutrient levels (e.g. dissolved inorganic nitrogen, DIN) in the surrounding sea water [20], elevation of the CO2 partial pressure (pCO2) in the surrounding sea water [21], and diffusive (i.e. branching) coral colony morphologies [22]. Experimental manipulations confirm the higher expulsion rate of zooxanthellae during periods of high irradiance in branching corals [23] and in corals exposed to DIN and pCO2 enrichment [24, 25].

@Russ265 we aren't imagining things! Branching corals (like birdsnests) are more prone specifically due to their structure. I think due to their increased surface area relative to other designs, but that's a guess – sill re-reading that article.

 

[Russ265]

Is the coral-algae symbiosis really ‘mutually beneficial’ for the partners?

This is a quote regarding bleaching (bold mine):


@Russ265 we aren't imagining things! Branching corals (like birdsnests) are more prone specifically due to their structure. I think due to their increased surface area relative to other designs, but that's a guess – sill re-reading that article.

not sure what to tell you.

also more growth doesnt necessarily mean more brittle. if phosphate is elevated calcium deposits are so, because of chemical reaction not light.

 

[themcnertney]

This discussion should change topic to water quality rather then light because I'd suspect that's the issue. Please list your water parameters.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This discussion should change topic to water quality rather then light because I'd suspect that's the issue. Please list your water parameters.

what do you think it is?

 

[Russ265]

@Dan McNertney is quite right. coral can handle 1000s of par and ive yet to kill one with par alone.... thats right. not a single coral ive owned died from par.

lack of nutrients. ive killed quite a few

 

[themcnertney]

what do you think it is?

Post 23, in my experience it's alk

 

[Russ265]

Post 23, in my experience it's alk

alk is dependent on nutrients as well.

only time ive killed a coral with high alk was because no3 was below 5 and po4 was below .02.

my tank sits at 12 alk and 450 calcium all day long.

 

[Russ265]

doublepost

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

yup. so with no nutrients(young tank) and unknown alk, unknown acclimation and too much light(too fast).

and Ill disagree on too much light too . esp w the the above.
i think it was just too fast.

 

[Russ265]

yup. so with no nutrients(young tank) and unknown alk, unknown acclimation and too much light(too fast).

and Ill disagree on too much light too . esp w the the above.
i think it was just too fast.

ive "shocked" corals in to a hibernation state where a novice would believe the coral died. (i agree you can shock the coral) but i never killed one.

birdsnest is hard to shock unless it is water params. ive taken petco birdsnests under crappy t5s and thrown em under my 1200 par system and they didnt bat an eye.

....lack of nutrients caused many to recede and eventually die though.

his 30k lux cant be enough unless he was giving them over 14 hours of the stuff ime.

im not saying it isnt possible. i just cant wrap my head around it because i havent experienced it firsthand.

 

[themcnertney]

Established tank, young reefer I believe I read. Just need to confirm what some of the values are.

 

[mcarroll]

not sure what to tell you.

Maybe let's just say it's easier to dive and take pictures of a reef and post them on the internet than it is to actually build a reef.

also more growth doesnt necessarily mean more brittle. if phosphate is elevated calcium deposits are so, because of chemical reaction not light.

The question is not about brittleness....so far, I've never seen a scientific article mention that....hobby threads, yes. (Haven't gone looking in that direction either, though.)

If you are still referring to my fast-growing corals comment (it's not clear), they were talking about healing from a wound, in the wild. I think you've seen that one before, but worth a thorough read if not.

@Dan McNertney is quite right. coral can handle 1000s of par and ive yet to kill one with par alone.... thats right. not a single coral ive owned died from par.

lack of nutrients. ive killed quite a few

Have you stopped killing your coral yet?

(Trick question. )

It's not just a question of whether they can. The question (if we're curious) is "at what cost?" There's a cost to both parties in a mutualistic relationship. (As in a cost to their own wellness.)

 

[Russ265]

Maybe let's just say it's easier to dive and take pictures of a reef and post them on the internet than it is to actually build a reef.


The question is not about brittleness....so far, I've never seen a scientific article mention that....hobby threads, yes. (Haven't gone looking in that direction either, though.)

If you are still referring to my fast-growing corals comment (it's not clear), they were talking about healing from a wound, in the wild. I think you've seen that one before, but worth a thorough read if not.



Have you stopped killing your coral yet?

(Trick question. )

It's not just a question of whether they can. The question (if we're curious) is "at what cost?" There's a cost to both parties in a mutualistic relationship. (As in a cost to their own wellness.)

just show me 1 coral that died of too much light. (barring nutrients were available)

you will find 0

 

[mcarroll]

Just tell me if you've stopped killing coral.

 

[mcarroll]

So to re-cap and bring it back around to the @Gdk414's birdsnest:

Is the coral-algae symbiosis really ‘mutually beneficial’ for the partners?

This is a quote regarding bleaching (bold mine):

Several environmental factors favour increased zooxanthellae densities (particularly on a per host cell basis), including: (i) elevated nutrient levels (e.g. dissolved inorganic nitrogen, DIN) in the surrounding sea water [20], elevation of the CO2 partial pressure (pCO2) in the surrounding sea water [21], and diffusive (i.e. branching) coral colony morphologies [22]. Experimental manipulations confirm the higher expulsion rate of zooxanthellae during periods of high irradiance in branching corals [23] and in corals exposed to DIN and pCO2 enrichment [24, 25].

This quote was interesting because it actually confirms that branchy corals like yours have stronger reactions to high irradiance, dissolved nitrogen and CO2 levels compared with other corals.

The whole article is interesting too.

 

[Russ265]

Just tell me if you've stopped killing coral.

tbh. nothing dies in my tank inexplicably. usually its me dosing pool algaecides to kill dinos (yes they are gone again) or something experimental.

not this "how do i keep water" stuff. also. i think i have more par than all of you. (1200 peak) why are all my corals not dying?

agreed. there could be a swap for accelerated growth (there always is) however i havent seen it. bone cutters still cut coral no matter the rate of growth.

the THICKNESS is dependent on flow.

po4 is bone density loss which is a different subject.

 

[Russ265]

So to re-cap and bring it back around to the @Gdk414's birdsnest:

Is the coral-algae symbiosis really ‘mutually beneficial’ for the partners?

This is a quote regarding bleaching (bold mine):


This quote was interesting because it actually confirms that branchy corals like yours have stronger reactions to high irradiance, dissolved nitrogen and CO2 levels compared with other corals.

The whole article is interesting too.

id look at it but tbh, short of a couple issues i cant figure out; growth, temperature, nutrients, and destroying grow offs is all i need. (pick your coral)

the lowering of light is a good tool every reefer should keep under their belt. itll save many a coral until you get to know your system better.

til then 100% it is.

another tool is the blue spectrum. turning down white light gives padding as well.

lot of tricks we can use. using them to run a reef just depends on the involvement of the aquarist. its not wrong... its just a way to minimize headaches.

 

[Russ265]

Maybe let's just say it's easier to dive and take pictures of a reef and post them on the internet than it is to actually build a reef.

you know what an atoll is right? outbuild that or any other reef island.

point is.... they are NOT only deepwater animals

 

[Russ265]

to anyone reading this i have the deepest respect for @mcarroll and what he brings to reefing community.

i speak in extremes sometimes to ring a point

 

[mcarroll]

And a true point!!!