Black Bugs - An Acro keepers worst nightmare?

[305Reefer]

Well there are some reports that the newer “proprietary formula” is no longer the interceptor medication. I usually just bathe my new additions in interceptor for 12-24 hours and have had good success with that but wanted something that doesn’t require a prescription from a vet.

Hmmm.. that's good to know and also unfortunate to hear as well. I personally dont have the time to dip anything for 6 hours, so my method is a cutting of the base of the coral. Dip in CoralRX for a minute or two while carefully observing. Then I mount on a new frag plug and I throw it into my LPS tank. Once the coral has fully fully fully encrusted on to the plug, I dip it once again and then move it to my SPS tank.. obviously not everyone has a QT or second tank, but I think QT combined with cutting off the bases is the only real way to prevent BB and AEFW.. Its a shame I wasn't so careful before I had my black bug infestation, used to simply dip and mount... Cutting the base off is probably more important than the dip itself..but combing the dip, the fresh plug, and QT is probaly as safe as its going to get.

 

[drawman]

Vendors dont have to deal with black bugs at all. When they bring in wild and mariculture they rarely stay in their tanks long enough to see them start doing damage. From the moment you get a single black bug in your tank until they are making acropora vanish in days, it takes months and months for them to get to a critical population from eggs.

Any vendor who is aquaculturing acropora is doing very intense QT and will most likely throw the coral away after multiple dips don't do the trick. Its important to note, if you dip an infected coral and move it to a new tank with no black bugs in it, the coral will do fantastic and recooperate quickly, appearing to have solved the issue. It takes months and months for the black bugs to reproduce to that critical level again.

Also worth mentioning, these black bugs seem to be extremely rare in the hobby. Just be searching on R2R you can see red bugs and AEFW are probably a thousand times more common than black bugs. To the point that alot of people have no idea whats going on, even after searching on r2r or other coral publications. There is almost no literature on them, very few people have done research on them, and they have yet to be scientifically identified unlike other more common pests.

Key point here may be yet. Let's hope this isn't something more common over the horizon.

 

[Cergoth]

I agree with all of these, there is a way to save the actual coral strain, but not the colony itself. If you cut far from the base, on purely healthy tissue, dip and then move to a QT tank you can atleast save yourself the cost of rebuying the frag. But trying to save a grown in acropora tank isn't happening. Making these guys, by far the biggest nightmare for a acropora collector.

And for anyone reading this thread who doesnt know what they look like (There are two varieties, one far worse than the other, these are the really bad guys.

Exactly, there are two varietes of black bugs. One seems to be more like flatworms. (That ones from my picture).

Second one are way more dangerous. They resemble some kind of invertebrates. (@305Reefer posted great videos).

 

[Studjunior]

So it looks like I have these black bugs in my system (I can see a bunch on them on the glass in my refug but never in the display). I've lost approx 80% of my SPS already over the course of 3 months. I will try to done Interceptor, even though I understand it is probably useless.... What if anything should be my next course of action?? I would like to one day be ably to have SPS in my talk again or I'm going to end up with a very expensive fish and softy tank .

 

[BAUCE]

So it looks like I have these black bugs in my system (I can see a bunch on them on the glass in my refug but never in the display). I've lost approx 80% of my SPS already over the course of 3 months. I will try to done Interceptor, even though I understand it is probably useless.... What if anything should be my next course of action?? I would like to one day be ably to have SPS in my talk again or I'm going to end up with a very expensive fish and softy tank .

will these survive without SPS? I'd just toss the remaining pieces out if they can't live without SPS and try again when things are cleared.

 

[Trueruby]

@305Reefer sorry to hear your loss

lately I had an issue that my sunburst montipora started to loose some flesh and bleaching. After I posted on r2r the idea was it might be a black bugs. Today I checked the frag stones and under it I saw the picture below after dip. However I couldnt see any on montipora.
could you check the picture below if it looks smth like you had trouble?

 

[RyanHoan]

Agreed, these moved more "worm like" and were slow moving. I will try to get a microscope photo and post when I do.
After doing some more searching I'm pretty sure this is what they are and still not good at all. They are called Halofolliculina corallasia. Here is another photo I found that looks exactly like what I have.

I have the same thing. Lost about 50% of my SPS in the last 3 weeks. I'd dip in Melafix and the bus would come off and die, but the coral base will look exactly like that (with that many bugs) in a few days.


Honestly, I think I'm done with Acropora. If I knew about black bugs when I started this hobby 3 years ago, I would have never purchased a single Acro. Why spend the money when a pest you can't beat will just come in and destroy everything?

 

[Dr. Jim]

I haven't read this whole thread but has anyone tried organophosphates, like trichlorfan (DYACIDE) to treat the entire tank?
I just ordered some today. I'm guessing it will kill them but I'm not sure if it will be safe for SPS. I will give it a try in my SPS Q-tank unless I hear something from someone that changes my mind.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Since I have some ivermectin (and I have to wait about a week for the DYACIDE that I just ordered), I decided to give the ivermectin a try. It will be hard to know if it is actually working because I've actually seen only 2 black bugs so far, but at least I can try to figure out what dosage the corals can handle. I started with 1/4 the dosage recommended in this article: https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium...measures-and-a-review-of-treatment-protocols/

i used 2 ml of 1% injectable ivermectin in 30 gallons which is 1/4 the recommended dosage. I will probably add more daily, or every few days, but one problem is not knowing how long it is stable (so it may never reach therapeutic levels if it degrades quickly.)

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Since I have some ivermectin (and I have to wait about a week for the DYACIDE that I just ordered), I decided to give the ivermectin a try. It will be hard to know if it is actually working because I've actually seen only 2 black bugs so far, but at least I can try to figure out what dosage the corals can handle. I started with 1/4 the dosage recommended in this article: https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium...measures-and-a-review-of-treatment-protocols/

i used 2 ml of 1% injectable ivermectin in 30 gallons which is 1/4 the recommended dosage. I will probably add more daily, or every few days, but one problem is not knowing how long it is stable (so it may never reach therapeutic levels if it degrades quickly.)

Is the Injectable form oil or water based?

 

[Dr. Jim]

Is the Injectable form oil or water based?

40% glycerol formal, and propylene glycol

I normally dilute it with propylene glycol when treating birds topically for mites and worms but it dissolved in aquarium water nicely.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

40% glycerol formal, and propylene glycol

I normally dilute it with propylene glycol when treating birds topically for mites and worms but it dissolved in aquarium water nicely.

Gotcha. So this isn’t something a hobbyists would want to grab off the shelf at the local feed store and squirt in the tank correct?

 

[Dr. Jim]

Gotcha. So this isn’t something a hobbyists would want to grab off the shelf at the local feed store and squirt in the tank correct?

LOL !! I just squirted it in my tank straight from the bottle. If you can find it somewhere that will sell it without a prescription, I'd say to definitely pick some up. But it is more likely you would need to get it from a vet. I'm just starting to play around with it so I will definitely fine tune my recommendations. Of course my goal is to kill the "bugs" without killing the corals which is why I started with what I think is a relatively low dose (1/4 the "recommended" dosage).

This has nothing to do with "bugs" but 1 hour after dosing, this is what I found lying on the bottom glass. I thought I had gotten rid of these pests a long time ago!

This juicy guy is about 8" long. Not dead yet, but almost; no attempt to get away. This tells me that the "1/4 dosage" is certainly enough to get Fireworms out of hiding, so I will not go any higher with the dosage for the bugs for now. (Of course a main concern is not killing my frags). If the "1/4 dose" is good enough for the worms, then it may be good enough for the bugs. Another reason for me not going higher with the dosage is in hopes of sparing the feather dusters. So far they appear fine, but it has only been a few hours.

When I get the DYACIDE (organophosphate) next week, I will probably use it at 1/4 it's recommended dose in conjunction with the Ivermectin. It is well known in medicine that sometimes a combination of several drugs at low dosages is less harmful to the host than a high dose of one drug. For example: usually 3 or more anesthetic agents are used at low dosages to anesthetize a patient rather than a high dose of one drug because it will be safer for the patient.

I wish I thought to try the ivermectin a year ago when I had Fireworms kill over 30 of my frags! I wrote about this in the link below. If anyone reads this, just read my initial post and post #136. (Everything in between isn't very relevant).

It may take me some time to figure out if the ivermectin and/or DYACIDE will kill the black bugs while being safe for a whole tank treatment, but I will post again when I have more to say about it.

FWIW: IMO, I don't believe Interceptor is the best choice for a dip for bugs of any kind. Usually dips are for no longer than 20 minutes and I believe the Interceptor would need several hours to be effective. I agree with others that it is practical only for the Red Bugs. For dips for bugs, I use Bayer. (I follow that with CoralRX or Revive for other parasites.) I reserve Interceptor for a whole-tank Red Bug treatment.

White Tips on SPS Frags Every Morning for Past 15 Days

Warning: I tried to make this as concise as possible but it is a "long read", so continue only if you have a lot of patience and curiosity! PROBLEM: For the past 15 days, every morning I wake up to find a white tip that I have to snip, usually on one frag each day. Only once was there STN from...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[drawman]

LOL !! I just squirted it in my tank straight from the bottle. If you can find it somewhere that will sell it without a prescription, I'd say to definitely pick some up. But it is more likely you would need to get it from a vet. I'm just starting to play around with it so I will definitely fine tune my recommendations. Of course my goal is to kill the "bugs" without killing the corals which is why I started with what I think is a relatively low dose (1/4 the "recommended" dosage).

This has nothing to do with "bugs" but 1 hour after dosing, this is what I found lying on the bottom glass. I thought I had gotten rid of these pests a long time ago!

This juicy guy is about 8" long. Not dead yet, but almost; no attempt to get away. This tells me that the "1/4 dosage" is certainly enough to get Fireworms out of hiding, so I will not go any higher with the dosage for the bugs for now. (Of course a main concern is not killing my frags). If the "1/4 dose" is good enough for the worms, then it may be good enough for the bugs. Another reason for me not going higher with the dosage is in hopes of sparing the feather dusters. So far they appear fine, but it has only been a few hours.

When I get the DYACIDE (organophosphate) next week, I will probably use it at 1/4 it's recommended dose in conjunction with the Ivermectin. It is well known in medicine that sometimes a combination of several drugs at low dosages is less harmful to the host than a high dose of one drug. For example: usually 3 or more anesthetic agents are used at low dosages to anesthetize a patient rather than a high dose of one drug because it will be safer for the patient.

I wish I thought to try the ivermectin a year ago when I had Fireworms kill over 30 of my frags! I wrote about this in the link below. If anyone reads this, just read my initial post and post #136. (Everything in between isn't very relevant).

It may take me some time to figure out if the ivermectin and/or DYACIDE will kill the black bugs while being safe for a whole tank treatment, but I will post again when I have more to say about it.

FWIW: IMO, I don't believe Interceptor is the best choice for a dip for bugs of any kind. Usually dips are for no longer than 20 minutes and I believe the Interceptor would need several hours to be effective. I agree with others that it is practical only for the Red Bugs. For dips for bugs, I use Bayer. (I follow that with CoralRX or Revive for other parasites.) I reserve Interceptor for a whole-tank Red Bug treatment.

White Tips on SPS Frags Every Morning for Past 15 Days

Warning: I tried to make this as concise as possible but it is a "long read", so continue only if you have a lot of patience and curiosity! PROBLEM: For the past 15 days, every morning I wake up to find a white tip that I have to snip, usually on one frag each day. Only once was there STN from...

www.reef2reef.com

Will definitely be following your trials.

 

[freezie]

Any updates on the ivermectin?

LOL !! I just squirted it in my tank straight from the bottle. If you can find it somewhere that will sell it without a prescription, I'd say to definitely pick some up. But it is more likely you would need to get it from a vet. I'm just starting to play around with it so I will definitely fine tune my recommendations. Of course my goal is to kill the "bugs" without killing the corals which is why I started with what I think is a relatively low dose (1/4 the "recommended" dosage).

This has nothing to do with "bugs" but 1 hour after dosing, this is what I found lying on the bottom glass. I thought I had gotten rid of these pests a long time ago!

This juicy guy is about 8" long. Not dead yet, but almost; no attempt to get away. This tells me that the "1/4 dosage" is certainly enough to get Fireworms out of hiding, so I will not go any higher with the dosage for the bugs for now. (Of course a main concern is not killing my frags). If the "1/4 dose" is good enough for the worms, then it may be good enough for the bugs. Another reason for me not going higher with the dosage is in hopes of sparing the feather dusters. So far they appear fine, but it has only been a few hours.

When I get the DYACIDE (organophosphate) next week, I will probably use it at 1/4 it's recommended dose in conjunction with the Ivermectin. It is well known in medicine that sometimes a combination of several drugs at low dosages is less harmful to the host than a high dose of one drug. For example: usually 3 or more anesthetic agents are used at low dosages to anesthetize a patient rather than a high dose of one drug because it will be safer for the patient.

I wish I thought to try the ivermectin a year ago when I had Fireworms kill over 30 of my frags! I wrote about this in the link below. If anyone reads this, just read my initial post and post #136. (Everything in between isn't very relevant).

It may take me some time to figure out if the ivermectin and/or DYACIDE will kill the black bugs while being safe for a whole tank treatment, but I will post again when I have more to say about it.

FWIW: IMO, I don't believe Interceptor is the best choice for a dip for bugs of any kind. Usually dips are for no longer than 20 minutes and I believe the Interceptor would need several hours to be effective. I agree with others that it is practical only for the Red Bugs. For dips for bugs, I use Bayer. (I follow that with CoralRX or Revive for other parasites.) I reserve Interceptor for a whole-tank Red Bug treatment.

White Tips on SPS Frags Every Morning for Past 15 Days

Warning: I tried to make this as concise as possible but it is a "long read", so continue only if you have a lot of patience and curiosity! PROBLEM: For the past 15 days, every morning I wake up to find a white tip that I have to snip, usually on one frag each day. Only once was there STN from...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Staghorn]

A few years a ago I had an infestation of Montipora eating black bugs. They appeared to be a little different than the variety of black bugs in your video. Barely visible, they looked like pepper on the coral. Greatly magnified they looked like copepods with claws. I found very few sources of information on how to treat for them. The only effective in tank treatment was “Interceptor” it was off the market and impossible to find. I learned that the active ingredient in Interceptor is “Milbemcyn oxime”. The main ingredient in the coral dip made by Dr. G’s is the same.... Milbemcyn oxime. The product is called “Dr.G's SPS & LPS Coral Dip Solution”
The thread with details on its use is on Reef Central, 2014, titled “Found another option for red bug tank treatments”
Good luck to you, I know how painful it is to watch your corals being decimated when you’re only inches away.

I actually did an in tank treatment with this product in a previous aquarium it completely wiped out the red bugs, it did kill some shrimps and crabs but other wise the tank did incredibly well after the treatment. I documented it on R2R I believe. I have no experience with black bugs good luck.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Any updates on the ivermectin?

I plan to write it up soon. Nothing earth-scattering but may be of some interest.

 

[KGV]

A few years a ago I had an infestation of Montipora eating black bugs. They appeared to be a little different than the variety of black bugs in your video. Barely visible, they looked like pepper on the coral. Greatly magnified they looked like copepods with claws. I found very few sources of information on how to treat for them. The only effective in tank treatment was “Interceptor” it was off the market and impossible to find. I learned that the active ingredient in Interceptor is “Milbemcyn oxime”. The main ingredient in the coral dip made by Dr. G’s is the same.... Milbemcyn oxime. The product is called “Dr.G's SPS & LPS Coral Dip Solution”
The thread with details on its use is on Reef Central, 2014, titled “Found another option for red bug tank treatments”
Good luck to you, I know how painful it is to watch your corals being decimated when you’re only inches away.

Did these bugs restrict themselves to Monti's or would they go after Acro's as well?

 

[Rickyrooz]

Did these bugs restrict themselves to Monti's or would they go after Acro's as well?

They only bother Acro's, not Monti's.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I plan to write it up soon. Nothing earth-scattering but may be of some interest.

I concluded that the parasite I was dealing with was not a Black Bug, so I started a new thread here:

IVERMECTIN and DYACIDE to Kill an Unidentified Parasitic “BROWN BUG” on SPS

Several months ago, I obtained 10 SPS frags from a seller on Ebay. At the time, I had 8 frags already in my Q-tank. All frags were dipped with my usual procedure: -50:50 mix with seller’s and my water; 10 minutes with pinch of Interceptor -Transfer to container with Coral...

www.reef2reef.com

Although I did not treat Black Bugs, the use of Ivermectin and DYACIDE in conjunction may work for them as it did for the "Brown Bugs" I described.