Black ich or bacteria?

Zechirian · Jan 29, 2017

Need some help, this just popped up yesterday. Been keeping a close eye on everyone and they are all eating like maniacs which is good. But my LT Tang, Juv Naso and Tomini tang are all showing black dots.

I've read the forums and it's always up in the air on if it is Black ich or bacteria. I've got lots of meds coming in to start treatment tomorrow.

Prazipro, Kanaplex, Furan-2 and Metroplex. I think i can dose the last 3 together with no bad interactions but can i include Prazipro as well?

Bad photo but you can see skin discoloration

melypr1985 · Jan 29, 2017

That looks like black ick to me. I would confirm with a freshwater dip before treating, but I think you'll only need prazi at this point. Save the antibiotics in case an infection follows the black ick.

Zechirian · Jan 29, 2017

Thank ya

Should I pull the rest of the fish out as well or is this primarily a tang only kind of thing? I'd treat the DT with prazi but i've got a TON of worms in it and the die off might not be good at all.

melypr1985 · Jan 29, 2017

Zechirian said:
Thank ya Should I pull the rest of the fish out as well or is this primarily a tang only kind of thing? I'd treat the DT with prazi but i've got a TON of worms in it and the die off might not be good at all.

I would pull just the tang for a freshwater dip. Do it for confirmation of black ich. If it's possative, then you'll want to treat everybody for it. If you can't do it in the display then pull them all for QT and leave the display fallow for 6 weeks.

Zechirian · Jan 30, 2017

Gotcha, i don't have any ornamental worms/feathers, just the normal bristle worms. I will FWD tomorrow and then look to see if the bucket has any critters that fell off. Thanks for the quick replies.

Zechirian · Jan 30, 2017

Ok, just did the FW dip and almost all of the black spots are still there, did it in a black bucket, no white specks no nothing. Watched your video on youtube, VERY nicely done and prepared me for him playing dead hahah.

Have all three of the tangs in my 40G breeder, i guess i will start with Furan-2, Kanaplex and Metroplex treatments?

Zechirian · Jan 30, 2017

Second two fish i do see some white sesame seed flakes in there. Still the big guy didn't shed anything

Humblefish · Jan 30, 2017

Zechirian said:
Second two fish i do see some white sesame seed flakes in there. Still the big guy didn't shed anything

Compare the black dots to the pics in this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-ich-turbellarians.259912/

Because what I see in your first photo looks very much like black ich to me.

melypr1985 · Jan 30, 2017

Zechirian said:
Ok, just did the FW dip and almost all of the black spots are still there, did it in a black bucket, no white specks no nothing. Watched your video on youtube, VERY nicely done and prepared me for him playing dead hahah.

Have all three of the tangs in my 40G breeder, i guess i will start with Furan-2, Kanaplex and Metroplex treatments?

I agree with Humble here. If any of the black dots fell off, then it's a good bet that it's black ich like we suspect. Plan to treat with prazi first.

Zechirian said:
Second two fish i do see some white sesame seed flakes in there. Still the big guy didn't shed anything

Yup... plan to start with prazi. You can move to the antibiotics if you need to after the prazi.

Zechirian · Jan 30, 2017

Ok will do, prazi is due here tomorrow. Thanks again

Zechirian · Feb 1, 2017

Ok update time, dosed Tuesday afternoon and didn't see much change yesterday or this morning but this evening it looks like several black spots are gone from the LT tang and the Naso looks 100x better with only the juvenile coloring back and not longer having very discolored skin.

Here you can see the lower tail fin fell of a bit, not sure why, it was hanging after the dosing so maybe the worm attached did enough damage to take it out?

Here you can see a couple spots still on the LT Tangs head

Mini Coop · Feb 1, 2017

Just for future (or hopefully not future reference) This is different than regular ich and most prone for tangs? Copper is not a treatment for this? Sorry @Zechirian - trying to learn from everyone else! Sorry you are going through this! Looks like they are doing great!

Humblefish · Feb 1, 2017

Jena Cooper said:
Just for future (or hopefully not future reference) This is different than regular ich and most prone for tangs? Copper is not a treatment for this? Sorry @Zechirian - trying to learn from everyone else! Sorry you are going through this! Looks like they are doing great!

Black ich is caused by an infestation of turbellarian flatworms and is “ich” in name only; it requires an entirely different treatment than Cryptocaryon irritans.

Prazipro usually works, although for tough strains sometimes formalin must be used for complete eradication. A 5 min FW dip will provide temporary relief.

More info: http://www.seascapestudio.net/reference/disease.php?id=turbellarian_infestation

Humblefish · Feb 1, 2017

@Zechirian If the tail continues to deteriorate, that is a sign of a secondary infection and antibiotics (exs. Kanaplex, Furan-2) might be needed next.

Zechirian · Feb 1, 2017

Humblefish said:
@Zechirian If the tail continues to deteriorate, that is a sign of a secondary infection and antibiotics (exs. Kanaplex, Furan-2) might be needed next.

Yup, got it waiting just in case.

Mini Coop · Feb 1, 2017

Humblefish said:
Black ich is caused by an infestation of turbellarian flatworms and is “ich” in name only; it requires an entirely different treatment than Cryptocaryon irritans.

Prazipro usually works, although for tough strains sometimes formalin must be used for complete eradication. A 5 min FW dip will provide temporary relief.

More info: http://www.seascapestudio.net/reference/disease.php?id=turbellarian_infestation

Thank you so much! Try to learn ahead of anything happening!

melypr1985 · Feb 1, 2017

Zechirian said:
Ok update time, dosed Tuesday afternoon and didn't see much change yesterday or this morning but this evening it looks like several black spots are gone from the LT tang and the Naso looks 100x better with only the juvenile coloring back and not longer having very discolored skin.

Here you can see the lower tail fin fell of a bit, not sure why, it was hanging after the dosing so maybe the worm attached did enough damage to take it out?

Here you can see a couple spots still on the LT Tangs head

Well he certainly does look a bit better. Good job having the antibiotics ready there. You may need to do a formalin dip on him to get rid of all those dots.... but hopefully not.

Zechirian · Feb 1, 2017

Should I need to dose the extra stuff, am I able to dose Kanaplex and Furan-2 in the hospital tank with Prazipro still active? or do I need to do a water change + carbon before I dose?

melypr1985 · Feb 1, 2017

Zechirian said:
Should I need to dose the extra stuff, am I able to dose Kanaplex and Furan-2 in the hospital tank with Prazipro still active? or do I need to do a water change + carbon before I dose?

Prazi is only active in the water for 48 hours and really only needs 24 hours exposure to the fish with each treatment. After 24 hours you can do a water change and be able to dose the antibiotics without worry.