Black Molly Test Accuracy

MrDellimore · Sep 11, 2020

Hello,

I have been trying to follow a good QT protocol, by treating with copper and general cure for two weeks then placing in an observation tank with a black molly for another 2 weeks.

I bought a Leopard Wrasse from live aquaria marked as Expert only (maybe I should have stayed away). After reading about how wrasses dont do well with medications I put her in the observation tank with the black molly. She has been in there for over 2 weeks now and I have not seen any signs of disease on her or the FW Black Molly.

At what point can I assume this fish safe for my DT? Should I add another black molly?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 11, 2020

My minimum quarantine period is 45 days, with 30 days active copper Rx and two weeks of prazi. Trouble is, leopard wrasse really don't like being held in a QT. You'll need to balance your risk based on the value of the fish in your DT.

Jay

Kyl · Sep 11, 2020

Put sand in the QT (pyrex tray) and that wrasse will do fine. Black mollies should hit for anything within 2-4 weeks.

Halal Hotdog · Sep 11, 2020

If I was in your shoes and only doing an observational Qt then I would observe for at least 2 months before even considering a move into DT. For that exact reason I avoid fish I cannot QT with medication.

Debramb · Sep 11, 2020

For what it’s worth, I bought a blue headed fairy wrasse from Diver’s Den, acclimation by adding 1/2 cup water every 20 min till bag was full and right into DT. After speaking with Liveaquaria rep (s) from losses, was informed Nothing from The Wisconsin facility ships until long Quarrentine procedures and observation. So far 3 months and very healthy. Debra

Debramb · Sep 11, 2020

Oh, one more thought, I’d call liveaquaria and talk to reps, ther’er pretty knowledgeable and honest, maybe even connect you to fish expert In Wisconsin.
Good Luck! I hate having to deal with possibly poor sick fish!!!!!!

Halal Hotdog · Sep 11, 2020

I live in WI and have received fish from Diver Den's (LiveAquaria) Wisconsin facility. I have received sick fish from them before. IMO nothing beats treating all new fish before they go into a DT.

vetteguy53081 · Sep 11, 2020

Mollies will produce waste needed to help cycle and eat algae
If you don’t quarantine , give fish at least a freshwater dip

Jay Hemdal · Sep 11, 2020

Debramb said:
Oh, one more thought, I’d call liveaquaria and talk to reps, ther’er pretty knowledgeable and honest, maybe even connect you to fish expert In Wisconsin.
Good Luck! I hate having to deal with possibly poor sick fish!!!!!!

I had heard a rumor that Divers Den fish still come from the Rhinelander facility, but the regular LiveAquaria fish now drop-ship from Quality Marine in LA....

Jay

Hugh Mann · Feb 13, 2021

It's way late on this one, but I figured I'd throw in my experience, in case someone searches this topic.

I had six converted black mollies in my display. During the QT of a Hippo Tang, I accidentally contaminated my tank with ich, or botched the TTM, because a couple weeks after adding the Hippo, it broke out with ich, and the mollies showed nothing. For weeks, until I took them out for bullying my fish. Well, all but one slippery bugger.

Months later, no visible spots until just yesterday. Likely because that poor Molly has been getting wrecked by the other fish, and possibly stung by aiptasia or my BTA.

These mollies were from a purely freshwater store, I converted to saltwater. I know it's just one experience from some random guy on the internet, but one experiment is also the reason we fallow for 76 days instead of 45.

Jay Hemdal · Feb 13, 2021

Hugh Mann said:
It's way late on this one, but I figured I'd throw in my experience, in case someone searches this topic.

I had six converted black mollies in my display. During the QT of a Hippo Tang, I accidentally contaminated my tank with ich, or botched the TTM, because a couple weeks after adding the Hippo, it broke out with ich, and the mollies showed nothing. For weeks, until I took them out for bullying my fish. Well, all but one slippery bugger.

Months later, no visible spots until just yesterday. Likely because that poor Molly has been getting wrecked by the other fish, and possibly stung by aiptasia or my BTA.

These mollies were from a purely freshwater store, I converted to saltwater. I know it's just one experience from some random guy on the internet, but one experiment is also the reason we fallow for 76 days instead of 45.

Hugh, I'm trying to figure out how a failure of the 45 day fallow period entered into the equation? Couldn't the molly have been harboring a subacute infection during this time?

I was always taught that an Asian researcher had found the maximum time frame for theront survivability to be around 32 days back in the 1970's. My curator at the time expanded that to 45 days to include a margin of error.

The 76 days period is based solely on one paper by Colorni, and that really needs to be reexamined. At the time, he was working with Peter Burgess, who apparently was working for the company that made Aquarian fish food. The journal it was published in only ran for a few issues and its peer review process is suspect, as Peter Burgess was the publisher!

In the paper, the sole reference is this:
Thus, theront excystment is very asynchronous, occurring between 3 and 72 days and peaking at 6 days
(Colorni, 1992).

If you then go to look up *that* reference, it is Colorni's PhD thesis and there does not seem to be a way to get that.

I wish I had more spare time and resources, that whole issue needs to be reevaluated....

Jay

zalick · Feb 13, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Hugh, I'm trying to figure out how a failure of the 45 day fallow period entered into the equation? Couldn't the molly have been harboring a subacute infection during this time?

I was always taught that an Asian researcher had found the maximum time frame for theront survivability to be around 32 days back in the 1970's. My curator at the time expanded that to 45 days to include a margin of error.

The 76 days period is based solely on one paper by Colorni, and that really needs to be reexamined. At the time, he was working with Peter Burgess, who apparently was working for the company that made Aquarian fish food. The journal it was published in only ran for a few issues and its peer review process is suspect, as Peter Burgess was the publisher!

In the paper, the sole reference is this:
Thus, theront excystment is very asynchronous, occurring between 3 and 72 days and peaking at 6 days
(Colorni, 1992).

If you then go to look up *that* reference, it is Colorni's PhD thesis and there does not seem to be a way to get that.

I wish I had more spare time and resources, that whole issue needs to be reevaluated....

Jay

Wow. I hadn't heard the background on 76 days presented like this before. It's always spoken as gospel. The conclusion of Colorni's paper seems suspect at best!

Do you have an opinion on 45 v. 76 days? I'm in the process of QT a batch of snails (I've never QT inverts before) and had planned on 76 days. 45 would be preferable as this is my only QT tank and then I could start a round of fish QT.

Jay Hemdal · Feb 13, 2021

zalick said:
Wow. I hadn't heard the background on 76 days presented like this before. It's always spoken as gospel. The conclusion of Colorni's paper seems suspect at best!

Do you have an opinion on 45 v. 76 days? I'm in the process of QT a batch of snails (I've never QT inverts before) and had planned on 76 days. 45 would be preferable as this is my only QT tank and then I could start a round of fish QT.

Well, that is why 76 days has become dogma - if you challenge it and it doesn't work for somebody, then you look liked a schmuck (grin). I quarantine all invertebrates in a "no fish" tank for at least 45 days. Temperature is key to all this as well - 81 F. is best. At 75 F. it could very well end up needing to be 76 days ....

Jay