Black Storm Clown has ICH or brook?? please help!!

[ISFNick]

Hi,
A couple weeks ago I got this small Black Storm clown.
He’s been active, eating everything, and I haven’t spotted any signs of ICH.

just today I started to see some little white dots on his body.
Pictures attached and a couple videos.

Is is ICH or brook maybe?
If so what should I do to treat him?
I would really appreciate any input.
Black Storm clowns aren’t cheap and I would like to keep him around

 

[Crabs McJones]

It could be brook or velvet. Do you have a qt tank available? @Big G @HotRocks @4FordFamily #reefsquad
Any help?

 

[ISFNick]

It could be brook or velvet. Do you have a qt tank available? @Big G @HotRocks @4FordFamily #reefsquad
Any help?

I don't currently but I would easily be able to get one.
I can swing by my local fish store and pick up a fluval evo 5 and Cobalt heater. Bada bing bada boom easy setup.

After I do get one what should I do?

 

[AcroNem]

If it's Brook, a Formalin dip between transferring it to quarantine can help significantly. Some meds in stores have it but in low concentration, we can tweak the dose depending on which kind you find. If it's velvet, a copper treatment is best.

 

[ISFNick]

If it's Brook, a Formalin dip between transferring it to quarantine can help significantly. Some meds in stores have it but in low concentration, we can tweak the dose depending on which kind you find. If it's velvet, a copper treatment is best.

How do I know if its brook or velvet? I would hate to do the wrong treatment and then let the disease kill my clown

 

[rkpetersen]

Looks like velvet or crypto to me. Doubt brooklynella.

The problem with setting up a QT tank now is that you'll have to deal with ammonia since it won't be cycled. This will further stress the fish. Using lots of bottled bacteria (Turbo Start 900 is best, but expensive and not always available) and frequent water changes may help. Then, to treat the infection, you should have a bottle of chelated copper (Copper Power is best) and optimally a Hanna high range copper checker to read and adjust the copper level. Also, as mentioned above, a formalin or acraflavine dip before transferring the fish to the QT may buy it some time. Formalin has gotten harder to find, but Ruby Reef Rally is an effective acriflavine product.

 

[rkpetersen]

If you want to also treat for brook, get some Metroplex and use that.

Here's more info about both copper treatment and metro treatment.

Copper treatment

Copper treatment What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum). There is some anecdotal evidence that copper will suppress symptoms of Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum; however it is unlikely to completely eradicate either. How...

www.reef2reef.com

Metronidazole

Metronidazole (Flagyl) What It Treats – Internal parasites (flagellates), Brooklynella, Uronema marinum. How To Treat – Metro can be found as a stand-alone drug (e.g. Seachem MetroPlex, Hikari Metro+) or incorporated into a multi-purpose medication (e.g. API General Cure). When using 100%...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ISFNick]

Looks like velvet or crypto to me. Doubt brooklynella.

The problem with setting up a QT tank now is that you'll have to deal with ammonia since it won't be cycled. This will further stress the fish. Using lots of bottled bacteria (Turbo Start 900 is best, but expensive and not always available) and frequent water changes may help. Then, to treat the infection, you should have a bottle of chelated copper (Copper Power is best) and optimally a Hanna high range copper checker to read and adjust the copper level. Also, as mentioned above, a formalin or acraflavine dip before transferring the fish to the QT may buy it some time. Formalin has gotten harder to find, but Ruby Reef Rally is an effective acriflavine product.

I have marinePure biomedia cubes I can easily use to help bolster the population of nitrifying bacteria in the tank. Should help immensely, the cubes are around 9 months matured.

Does copper hurt nitrifying bacteria?

 

[rkpetersen]

I have marinePure biomedia cubes I can easily use to help bolster the population of nitrifying bacteria in the tank. Should help immensely, the cubes are around 9 months matured.

Does copper hurt nitrifying bacteria?

Those cubes would definitely made a difference.
Therapeutic levels of copper won't harm the biofilter.

 

[Big G]

Does copper hurt nitrifying bacteria?

Yes, it does. I have tried using MarinePure plates in the QT and then plates turned into a big, green, slimey mess as the good bacteria died off.

The problem with your clowns is that "early" Brook can present just like ich or velvet. Best to treat with copper and also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

1. Freshwater Dip . . . will remove many parasites: Velvet, Ich, Brook and then

2. 60 Minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally for it's antiseptic and antibiotic qualities that helps both removing more of the parasites and treating the many insertion points from the parasites attacking your fish. THIS STEP GREATLY INCREASES SURVIVAL RATES, EVEN WITH SEVERELY ATTACKED FISH.

3. Treat with copper. Copper Power is preferred and very reliable. Also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

4. Have antibiotics ready. Prefer Ciprofloxacin as you can use in a bath; or Spectrogram for dosing into the QT.

 

[4FordFamily]

I think it’s velvet though copper power + metroplex or just chloroquine phosphate for 30 days will do the trick.

I am personally playing around with H202 baths, but that isn’t helpful here as your tank needs to be fallow for 76 days.

 

[ISFNick]

Thanks everyone for your replies I’m sad to report that the Black Storm Clownfish named “Moo” didn’t make it through the night

what could’ve had such a rapid onset and killed him so quickly?

 

[Big G]

Thanks everyone for your replies I’m sad to report that the Black Storm Clownfish named “Moo” didn’t make it through the night

what could’ve had such a rapid onset and killed him so quickly?

Velvet/Brook can kill very quickly. It usually first attacks within the gills. The spots you see are not the parasite but the fish's immune system mucous response. So the actual attack too place before you see the white spots.
Sorry for your loss

 

[ISFNick]

Yes, it does. I have tried using MarinePure plates in the QT and then plates turned into a big, green, slimey mess as the good bacteria died off.

The problem with your clowns is that "early" Brook can present just like ich or velvet. Best to treat with copper and also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

1. Freshwater Dip . . . will remove many parasites: Velvet, Ich, Brook and then

2. 60 Minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally for it's antiseptic and antibiotic qualities that helps both removing more of the parasites and treating the many insertion points from the parasites attacking your fish. THIS STEP GREATLY INCREASES SURVIVAL RATES, EVEN WITH SEVERELY ATTACKED FISH.

3. Treat with copper. Copper Power is preferred and very reliable. Also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

4. Have antibiotics ready. Prefer Ciprofloxacin as you can use in a bath; or Spectrogram for dosing into the QT.

how long is the freshwater dip?

 

[Qasimja]

how long is the freshwater dip?

no more then 5 minutes

 

[Big G]

how long is the freshwater dip?

Usually at about the 3 minute mark, if there are flukes, they begin to drop off, as well as other parasites like velvet, Brook, etc. So by 5 minutes what is there is usually spasamed and dropped off. But some parasites are deep into the fish's eyes, mucous membrane of the gills, etc. and need additional follow up dips. In fact, some studies have reported that for Brook, doing a FW dip each day can completely clear the parasites. But it could take several days (7-10) until that has occurred.

 

[ISFNick]

Yes, it does. I have tried using MarinePure plates in the QT and then plates turned into a big, green, slimey mess as the good bacteria died off.

The problem with your clowns is that "early" Brook can present just like ich or velvet. Best to treat with copper and also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

1. Freshwater Dip . . . will remove many parasites: Velvet, Ich, Brook and then

2. 60 Minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally for it's antiseptic and antibiotic qualities that helps both removing more of the parasites and treating the many insertion points from the parasites attacking your fish. THIS STEP GREATLY INCREASES SURVIVAL RATES, EVEN WITH SEVERELY ATTACKED FISH.

3. Treat with copper. Copper Power is preferred and very reliable. Also dose with Metro for the possible Brook.

4. Have antibiotics ready. Prefer Ciprofloxacin as you can use in a bath; or Spectrogram for dosing into the QT.

Could you go into more detail about the time frames of these?

Should the Reef Rally come directly after the freshwater dip for example?

 

[lakai]

looks like velvet, chloroquine phosphate is your friend.

 

[ISFNick]

looks like velvet, chloroquine phosphate is your friend.

Fish already passed. Currently waiting on the reef rally pro to start a qt of a new clown

 

[ISFNick]

Usually at about the 3 minute mark, if there are flukes, they begin to drop off, as well as other parasites like velvet, Brook, etc. So by 5 minutes what is there is usually spasamed and dropped off. But some parasites are deep into the fish's eyes, mucous membrane of the gills, etc. and need additional follow up dips. In fact, some studies have reported that for Brook, doing a FW dip each day can completely clear the parasites. But it could take several days (7-10) until that has occurred.

Just replying again so you see! Would love to get some more info!