I was having a discussion with another reefer yesterday. He was telling me about someone who had been successfully rearing bubble tips for years. He decided to add in a Black Widow anemone for propagation. Within a few weeks he lost all other anemones except the Black widow. He referenced other incidences of Black Widows doing this as well. I had never heard of this before. Anyone care to share their experiences with Black widow anemones?
Black widow anemones incompatible?
- Thread starter 7hogwarts
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I posted a thread about this yesterday (kind of) it seems they are indeed incompatible (at least to some extent). I think it probably varies on the individual anemone, but since they aren't exactly the same species, they aren't immune to each others' toxins, so they can definitely sting each other.
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
There definitely is some truth to problems when mixing BTA nems. I was never a believer of this until I experienced it myself.
I tried putting a black widow with a csb, supernova, rainbows and a wildfire. I almost lost the csb and supernova. I had to put them each in there own tank and thankfully they are recovering. The csb I did a cipro treatment on. The rainbows are currently struggling but that maybe something unrelated and the wildfire looks great.
I also keep a gig and a mag with these. Nems! so beautiful but a real pain sometimes.
I tried putting a black widow with a csb, supernova, rainbows and a wildfire. I almost lost the csb and supernova. I had to put them each in there own tank and thankfully they are recovering. The csb I did a cipro treatment on. The rainbows are currently struggling but that maybe something unrelated and the wildfire looks great.
I also keep a gig and a mag with these. Nems! so beautiful but a real pain sometimes.
7hogwarts
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Thanks everyone. This is all so interesting.
If it is a bacteria, then I wonder would an antibiotic treatment kill the bacteria that allows some anemones to be killed by other anemones? Or is that particular bacteria essential for the particular anemone? (perhaps a symbiotic relationship)
If it is a bacteria, then I wonder would an antibiotic treatment kill the bacteria that allows some anemones to be killed by other anemones? Or is that particular bacteria essential for the particular anemone? (perhaps a symbiotic relationship)
Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
Interesting topic, I have a ton of black widows all splits from the same. I never introduced any other nems in my tanks. However, my black widows are very well behaved as they never killed any corals they rub against...just posted asking about this yesterday.
ClownWrangler
Well-Known Member
The guy who sold me my black widow BTAs told me they might fight with the RBTAs, but I figured since they are the same species, I didn’t take it too seriously and just kept them appart. The black widow BTAs have been in the tank a couple weeks and have been deflating like spaghetti every other day or so then recovering in a few hours. The RBTAs have been perfectly healthy ever since I put them in a few months ago. However yesterday they all seemed a little off, all partially deflated at once. The water parameters were pristine, there is no stray voltage and two fish died, a maroon clown and flame hawk that were perfectly healthy the day before. Two others are recovering in a QT.
I originally suspected velvet. After reading the velvet sticky, I'm not convinced that’s what’s happening here. The flame angel fully recovered in less than a day in QT and the maroon clown looks like it's only having equilibrium problems at this point, possibly neurological damage from acute toxicity. More importantly, there were never any white spots, even on the two fish that died.
Here’s the question, can two types of BTAs engage in chemical warfare given that they are the same species, and if so, can it harm the fish in a small tank?
Here's the thread I started in the fish disease section.
www.reef2reef.com
I originally suspected velvet. After reading the velvet sticky, I'm not convinced that’s what’s happening here. The flame angel fully recovered in less than a day in QT and the maroon clown looks like it's only having equilibrium problems at this point, possibly neurological damage from acute toxicity. More importantly, there were never any white spots, even on the two fish that died.
Here’s the question, can two types of BTAs engage in chemical warfare given that they are the same species, and if so, can it harm the fish in a small tank?
Here's the thread I started in the fish disease section.
Unknown toxicity in tank
I came home in the afternoon and noticed that my flame hawk fish was gasping at the bottom of the tank and pale. My small maroon clowns were swimming about with slightly clamped fins, which they never do, but ate when I fed them. The maroon is at the top of the tank like it wants air, but i have...
www.reef2reef.com
7hogwarts
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I have a Rainbow bubble tip and a Black widow in the same tank. They settled about 4" from eachother. I have a Nemo that hosts both of them. A couple of wrasses, A pair of Staarkii damsels, Lawnmower blenny, a Swalesii basslet. An assortment of inverts. So far, so good.
Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that any RBTA can fight with any another RBTA UNLESS it is a clone from the same nem. So you can have a Rose BTA fighting with a black widow nem.The guy who sold me my black widow BTAs told me they might fight with the RBTAs, but I figured since they are the same species, I didn’t take it too seriously and just kept them appart. The black widow BTAs have been in the tank a couple weeks and have been deflating like spaghetti every other day or so then recovering in a few hours. The RBTAs have been perfectly healthy ever since I put them in a few months ago. However yesterday they all seemed a little off, all partially deflated at once. The water parameters were pristine, there is no stray voltage and two fish died, a maroon clown and flame hawk that were perfectly healthy the day before. Two others are recovering in a QT.
I originally suspected velvet. After reading the velvet sticky, I'm not convinced that’s what’s happening here. The flame angel fully recovered in less than a day in QT and the maroon clown looks like it's only having equilibrium problems at this point, possibly neurological damage from acute toxicity. More importantly, there were never any white spots, even on the two fish that died.
Here’s the question, can two types of BTAs engage in chemical warfare given that they are the same species, and if so, can it harm the fish in a small tank?
Here's the thread I started in the fish disease section.
Unknown toxicity in tank
I came home in the afternoon and noticed that my flame hawk fish was gasping at the bottom of the tank and pale. My small maroon clowns were swimming about with slightly clamped fins, which they never do, but ate when I fed them. The maroon is at the top of the tank like it wants air, but i have...
I have not tried nems with other nems because i have only a lot of black widows which are clones/splits from the same one. I think there is also some individual variations really. A lot of people say nems can sting other corals. In my case my black widows stray a lot around the tank and they rub against other corals. But so far they never harmed or killed any other corals
I had about 7-8 nems in my previous tank and they got along great as they were clones of the same. to the point, they took over the whole tank. but I started a new tank and I got a rock with one green and 2 rose bubble tips and also bought another RBTA. they coexisted for a while (about a month) and suddenly all the anemones started shrinking. at the same time, I suspected something bacterial going on in the tank and started dosing H2O2. The Green BTA recovered while the others all shrunk and disappeared. Now I am left with one huge Green BTA and nothing else.
I was doing some research as I saw a very nice Black Rose Anemone and I came across this thread. I wish I saw this thread earlier. No more black roses for me then !!!!.
I was doing some research as I saw a very nice Black Rose Anemone and I came across this thread. I wish I saw this thread earlier. No more black roses for me then !!!!.
Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
Sorry what is a black rose nem?
Timfish
Crusty Old Salt
Just for reference while it's not for BTAs there is research showing specific differences in immune systems at the genotype level. Melanin is also a crucial component of coral and anemone immune systems. It seems reasonably possibile to me Black Widow BTAs are so dark because their microbiome incudes pathogens they are able to tolerate because of high melanin production. The need for using antibiotics like Cipro to successfully cultivate some of the BTA clone lines seems to me to be additional evidence of microbiomes with heavy pathogen levels.
dvgyfresh
2500 Club Member
Not sure if relevant to this, I had a bunch of nems all touching only one was a Sherman rose BTA , well the Sherman has since lost all its tentacles (idk how lol just gone ) and is growing back rainbow tentacles , like the rainbows forced it to change , will get pics when the new tentacles are no longer nubs
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Still confusing. I have one 20 gallon long with 9 ultra rainbows bubble tips. And one small bright yellow. There was a rose Bubbletip in there also, but located itself in a back corner and couldn’t enjoy it and get a view of it, so moved it to another tank. Also in the 20 long there is 16-18 rock flowers. Many Palys, zoas, florida ricordea and a green hairy mushroom and a blue / purple / green hairy mushroom. One tyree neon green toadstool. These all seem to get along fine. I put in two green bubbletips and they kind of vanished.
In my IM nuvo fusion 10 gallon cube I have a hot pink bubbletip, that rose bubbletip I moved, a small neon Orange bubbletip and a peach bubbletip. rock flowers mixed in certainly don’t seem to be a problem.
So not sure if there really is or is not a problem with mixing rose bubbletips.
In my IM nuvo fusion 10 gallon cube I have a hot pink bubbletip, that rose bubbletip I moved, a small neon Orange bubbletip and a peach bubbletip. rock flowers mixed in certainly don’t seem to be a problem.
So not sure if there really is or is not a problem with mixing rose bubbletips.
Hooz
Valuable Member
Where are you finding the peach, orange, etc BTAs? I've seen the crazy expensive Sunbursts locally, and I have an Acid Rain and Rainbow, but I wouldn't mind adding another one or two different, less expensive and less aggressive/temperamental ones. I just can't find them.
