Bloom will not go away. Help ID it?

[jsbzcmcdaniel]

I had identical issue. I read and read multiple threads on here and came up with a plan. My tank was started with dry rock and therefore had zero beneficial bacteria. More or less my bacteria level in the tank was not sufficient. The more i did water changes the worse it got. I did bimonthly ICP tests and everything was ok except my no3 and Po4 levels were a bit low. I ended up adding dr Tim’s and microbacter7 every month for three months. I also add dr tims eco balance once a month to the tank to increase bacteria. I also blacked the tank for 4 days and started doing no3 and po4 to an ideal range. This was 6 months ago and it’s never come back and my tank looks better than it ever has. As others recommended I would get a ICP test done and while you wait for the results add some bacteria and black the tank out.

 

[saltyhog]

Your coral is already stressed. Blackouts will not eliminate diatoms or dinos. Further, if whatever this bloom is is contributing to your coral issues they certainly aren't diatoms.

 

[saltyhog]

Also, it's ok to lower your NO3 a little but don't use anything with GFO in it. Your PO4 needs to go up not down!

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

I had identical issue. I read and read multiple threads on here and came up with a plan. My tank was started with dry rock and therefore had zero beneficial bacteria. More or less my bacteria level in the tank was not sufficient. The more i did water changes the worse it got. I did bimonthly ICP tests and everything was ok except my no3 and Po4 levels were a bit low. I ended up adding dr Tim’s and microbacter7 every month for three months. I also add dr tims eco balance once a month to the tank to increase bacteria. I also blacked the tank for 4 days and started doing no3 and po4 to an ideal range. This was 6 months ago and it’s never come back and my tank looks better than it ever has. As others recommended I would get a ICP test done and while you wait for the results add some bacteria and black the tank out.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Guys, could it be that I'm feeding too little and my skimmer is insufficient for my tank? I have a 150 gallon tank and my skimmer is a reef octopus classic 150INT.

 

[saltyhog]

Guys, could it be that I'm feeding too little and my skimmer is insufficient for my tank? I have a 150 gallon tank and my skimmer is a reef octopus classic 150INT.

You certainly may be able to increase your PO4 with increased feeding but there is some thought that organic sources of PO4 and NO3 can be counter productive. Ineffective skimming is not causing the low PO4 which is likely the cause of your issues. It might have something to do with the high NO3.

 

[ScottR]

Would if I had the money. I'm pretty sure scopes are good investment, no?

You can get a cheap children’s microscope from toys r us. Or amazon. My son has a very cheap one and it’s good enough for me to identify diatoms and dinos. You can also take a pic of them and post here for an ID. I agree with you must know what you’re dealing with before taking action.

 

[Trey]

Looks like diatoms to me.. should subside with time.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

You certainly may be able to increase your PO4 with increased feeding but there is some thought that organic sources of PO4 and NO3 can be counter productive. Ineffective skimming is not causing the low PO4 which is likely the cause of your issues. It might have something to do with the high NO3.

But what would cause high nitrate and low phosphate? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong to lead to this issue and there doesn't seem to be much info out there for the few who also run into this.

 

[saltyhog]

But what would cause high nitrate and low phosphate? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong to lead to this issue and there doesn't seem to be much info out there for the few who also run into this.

Many times there isn't any obvious reason for the disparity. Sometimes it's from using products that lower one more than the other. For instance, GFO will greatly reduce PO4 but have little effect on NO3. Carbon dosing will lower NO3 significantly and have little effect on PO4 (most of the time).

It also could be a testing issue. It may be the test kits aren't giving an accurate picture of what's going on. It might be worthwhile to get an ICP test (I like ATI) to see where PO4 really is.

Still a lot we don't understand about dinos.

 

[Alexreefer]

But what would cause high nitrate and low phosphate? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong to lead to this issue and there doesn't seem to be much info out there for the few who also run into this.

I had pretty much the exact same problem for months with no end, It would constantly be around. I decided to let the tank autopilot for about a month, no w/c, wet skimming, and heavy feeding. For the first week no change but after the second places began to clear up. I took away gfo and after a couple of days, everything was white. Also, @brandon429 helped me throughout the entire way, His sand rinse method almost made the dino disappear, they did come back but in much smaller numbers. He may be able to help

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Many times there isn't any obvious reason for the disparity. Sometimes it's from using products that lower one more than the other. For instance, GFO will greatly reduce PO4 but have little effect on NO3. Carbon dosing will lower NO3 significantly and have little effect on PO4 (most of the time).

It also could be a testing issue. It may be the test kits aren't giving an accurate picture of what's going on. It might be worthwhile to get an ICP test (I like ATI) to see where PO4 really is.

Still a lot we don't understand about dinos.

The thing is, I don't have anything that's solely targeted for phosphate reduction. I've tried carbon dosing for nitrates but it made no difference and phosphate was still low while nitrate was still high. The carbon dosing didn't work, so now I'm trying phosphorus dosing with biopellets.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

I had pretty much the exact same problem for months with no end, It would constantly be around. I decided to let the tank autopilot for about a month, no w/c, wet skimming, and heavy feeding. For the first week no change but after the second places began to clear up. I took away gfo and after a couple of days, everything was white. Also, @brandon429 helped me throughout the entire way, His sand rinse method almost made the dino disappear, they did come back but in much smaller numbers. He may be able to help

Thanks for the tips! I've also held off on water changes in recent weeks and started feeding more phosphorus rich foods. I wasn't running any GFO but I did try carbon dosing, which made no difference at all, weirdly.

 

[saltyhog]

The thing is, I don't have anything that's solely targeted for phosphate reduction. I've tried carbon dosing for nitrates but it made no difference and phosphate was still low while nitrate was still high. The carbon dosing didn't work, so now I'm trying phosphorus dosing with biopellets.

Do you mean you are using biopellets AND dosing phosphorus? Biopellets are just a method of carbon dosing.

What else have you tried?

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Do you mean you are using biopellets AND dosing phosphorus? Biopellets are just a method of carbon dosing.

What else have you tried?

Right. It's another form. I was sugar dosing but it seemed to be too harsh on the corals. So that's why I switched. And I know nitrate reduction is dependent on the amount of phosphate the tank has. Since mine is low, not many nitrates are going to get used up, which is why carbon dosing didn't work initially. The food I was using had absolutely no phosphorus in it. So I'm doing biopellets, dosing phosphorus, and using foods that phosphorus in it.

I've tried large frequent water changes, vacuuming the sand bed, lowering my white channel, feeding less, seachem prime dosing (which bleached my alveopora), sugar dosing, growing chaeto (which eventually died), and growing caulerpa (which grows slowly).

 

[saltyhog]

Right. It's another form. I was sugar dosing but it seemed to be too harsh on the corals. So that's why I switched. And I know nitrate reduction is dependent on the amount of phosphate the tank has. Since mine is low, not many nitrates are going to get used up, which is why carbon dosing didn't work initially. The food I was using had absolutely no phosphorus in it. So I'm doing biopellets, dosing phosphorus, and using foods that phosphorus in it.

I've tried large frequent water changes, vacuuming the sand bed, lowering my white channel, feeding less, seachem prime dosing (which bleached my alveopora), sugar dosing, growing chaeto (which eventually died), and growing caulerpa (which grows slowly).

Ok..............here's where we are. If this is diatoms, all the talk about NO3 and PO4 is irrelevant. If it's dinos your NO3 is not the problem, the PO4 being zero is. You really need to get a firm diagnosis with a microscope before trying anything else.

As noted above, increasing PO4 by feeding more is not a good idea especially with your already elevated NO3. Seachem Flourish Phosphate is what I recommend to increase phosphate with.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Ok..............here's where we are. If this is diatoms, all the talk about NO3 and PO4 is irrelevant. If it's dinos your NO3 is not the problem, the PO4 being zero is. You really need to get a firm diagnosis with a microscope before trying anything else.

As noted above, increasing PO4 by feeding more is not a good idea especially with your already elevated NO3. Seachem Flourish Phosphate is what I recommend to increase phosphate with.

Currently dosing Seachem Flourish Phosphorus. I'm not feeding more. I just switched to foods that actually have phosphorus content in it.