Blue face angel, something on tail fin

  • Thread starter Thread starter Biff0rz
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users None

Biff0rz

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
966
Location
USA
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
I got a juv blue face angel through ttm, I've had him for 14 days now. I just moved him to my holding tank for the next two weeks and I noticed this white thing on his fin in ttm and it's still there today. Is this anything that needs to be treated? Pics are the best I could get, he moves fast and the pvc is white too.

Added some extra pictures where it's harder to see but circled ones where it's got some contrast.

He's eating very well, no other issues or symptoms.

PXL_20210401_151835613.jpg PXL_20210401_151835613~2.jpg PXL_20210401_151322677.jpg PXL_20210401_151322677~2.jpg PXL_20210401_152049252.jpg PXL_20210401_151855063.jpg PXL_20210401_151846489.jpg PXL_20210327_192753160.jpg
 
Feed that fish supper healthy and he’s golden. No need to stress that little blotch. I can see lymphocytes as the blotch doesn’t look raised and that’s not a spot where I generally see them.
 
Second opinion can hurt
@Jay Hemdal - ?
The thread titles tells it all (grin). Yes, Lymphocystis is common in juvenile bluering and blueface angels. It won't require any treatment (indeed, that only makes things worse) but it may get worse before it gets better. Here is some info I wrote up about it:

Lymphocystis (cauliflower disease)
This is a common viral disease of marine, brackish, and certain freshwater fishes (usually those with marine relatives: glassfish and rainbowfish). It is a chronic (long-lasting) but self-limiting (usually going away on its own) syndrome caused by an iridovirus. The virus causes hypertrophy (enlargement) of the epithelial cells of a fish’s skin and fins.

Initial symptoms consist of off-white to gray nodules on the fish that spread and grow larger over a timeframe of 10 to 90 days. Commonly, when a Lymphocystis nodule forms on a pectoral fin, a new nodule will soon begin to form on the part of the fish that is brushed by the fin, indicating that direct contact can be a mode of spreading the infection.

When Lymphocystis first starts, the small growths can be misdiagnosed as a protozoan infection, such as Cryptocaryon, or even a bacterial infection. The fact that the lesions are long-lasting and do not cause the fish to become acutely ill rules out these more virulent diseases.

Since Lymphocystis is most often seen in newly imported fishes, capture and transport stresses are often mentioned as the stressors that allow this disease to take hold. While this may be true, it may also be that the cause is actually exposure to other infected fish in the aquarium systems of the exporter, importer, or retail suppliers. In any event, it is extremely rare for a fish held in captivity for more than four to six months to suddenly develop this disease.

Treatment with copper sulfate has also been implicated in the development of Lymphocystis in marine fish. The connection is actually not very clear, in that copper sulfate is most often used on newly imported fishes, and those are the ones that develop the disease most often.

Lymphocystis infections can sometimes become more serious, covering large areas of a fish’s body and even interfering with proper feeding if the cell growth involves areas around the mouth. In rare instances, the virus can also cause enlargement of the cells of internal organs, especially in marine fishes (Wolf 1988). This has the potential of causing serious, yet difficult-to-identify diseases in marine fishes.

A variety of cures have been suggested for this disease over the years. Some public aquarists have reported that a reduction in the animal’s environmental stress level will help reduce the severity of an infection. Others have reported that treatment with a mixture of malachite green and formalin (Quick Cure, Formalite, etc.) helps limit the spread of the lesions. Since both of these compounds can damage an aquarium’s bio-filter, and since both are toxic to fish, care must be taken if this method is attempted. By far, the most commonly recommended treatment involves surgically removing the hypertrophied skin cells, followed with a topical antibiotic to hopefully prevent secondary bacterial infection.

The general advice is to never intercede with a Lymphocystis infection—just let it run its course. The only exception might be if the fish develops a severe form of the disease and its mouth develops lesions that might inhibit it from feeding. Even in those extreme cases, surgery around the mouth will also cause the fish to stop feeding, so it may be better to just wait it out (Hemdal 2014).

Interestingly, aquarists do not seem to report Lymphocystis infections in their fish as often as they did in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Anecdotally, the disease does not seem as common in public aquariums overall as it used to be. The reason(s) for this change are unclear. It may be that more aquarists are familiar with the syndrome, know that it is usually self-limiting, and therefore do not report it. It may also be that marine fish traveling through the commercial supply chain are being handled better, with less stress, making the outbreaks less common.


Jay
 
The thread titles tells it all (grin). Yes, Lymphocystis is common in juvenile bluering and blueface angels. It won't require any treatment (indeed, that only makes things worse) but it may get worse before it gets better. Here is some info I wrote up about it:

Lymphocystis (cauliflower disease)
This is a common viral disease of marine, brackish, and certain freshwater fishes (usually those with marine relatives: glassfish and rainbowfish). It is a chronic (long-lasting) but self-limiting (usually going away on its own) syndrome caused by an iridovirus. The virus causes hypertrophy (enlargement) of the epithelial cells of a fish’s skin and fins.

Initial symptoms consist of off-white to gray nodules on the fish that spread and grow larger over a timeframe of 10 to 90 days. Commonly, when a Lymphocystis nodule forms on a pectoral fin, a new nodule will soon begin to form on the part of the fish that is brushed by the fin, indicating that direct contact can be a mode of spreading the infection.

When Lymphocystis first starts, the small growths can be misdiagnosed as a protozoan infection, such as Cryptocaryon, or even a bacterial infection. The fact that the lesions are long-lasting and do not cause the fish to become acutely ill rules out these more virulent diseases.

Since Lymphocystis is most often seen in newly imported fishes, capture and transport stresses are often mentioned as the stressors that allow this disease to take hold. While this may be true, it may also be that the cause is actually exposure to other infected fish in the aquarium systems of the exporter, importer, or retail suppliers. In any event, it is extremely rare for a fish held in captivity for more than four to six months to suddenly develop this disease.

Treatment with copper sulfate has also been implicated in the development of Lymphocystis in marine fish. The connection is actually not very clear, in that copper sulfate is most often used on newly imported fishes, and those are the ones that develop the disease most often.

Lymphocystis infections can sometimes become more serious, covering large areas of a fish’s body and even interfering with proper feeding if the cell growth involves areas around the mouth. In rare instances, the virus can also cause enlargement of the cells of internal organs, especially in marine fishes (Wolf 1988). This has the potential of causing serious, yet difficult-to-identify diseases in marine fishes.

A variety of cures have been suggested for this disease over the years. Some public aquarists have reported that a reduction in the animal’s environmental stress level will help reduce the severity of an infection. Others have reported that treatment with a mixture of malachite green and formalin (Quick Cure, Formalite, etc.) helps limit the spread of the lesions. Since both of these compounds can damage an aquarium’s bio-filter, and since both are toxic to fish, care must be taken if this method is attempted. By far, the most commonly recommended treatment involves surgically removing the hypertrophied skin cells, followed with a topical antibiotic to hopefully prevent secondary bacterial infection.

The general advice is to never intercede with a Lymphocystis infection—just let it run its course. The only exception might be if the fish develops a severe form of the disease and its mouth develops lesions that might inhibit it from feeding. Even in those extreme cases, surgery around the mouth will also cause the fish to stop feeding, so it may be better to just wait it out (Hemdal 2014).

Interestingly, aquarists do not seem to report Lymphocystis infections in their fish as often as they did in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Anecdotally, the disease does not seem as common in public aquariums overall as it used to be. The reason(s) for this change are unclear. It may be that more aquarists are familiar with the syndrome, know that it is usually self-limiting, and therefore do not report it. It may also be that marine fish traveling through the commercial supply chain are being handled better, with less stress, making the outbreaks less common.


Jay
Thanks!! You're always helping me, I appreciate it a lot. So, is this contagious? Ie should I not add him to the display until it's gone? Also adding a video just in case.

 
It is contagious, but usually only to other newly acquired fish of susceptible species. You ask about moving it to the display tank - that begs the question, what quarantine process are you passing this fish through? Lymphocystis isn't a huge issue, but so many time, I see new fish that have that, but ALSO have communicable, more serious diseases. You need to clear those for this fish before moving it to the DT.

Jay
 
It is contagious, but usually only to other newly acquired fish of susceptible species. You ask about moving it to the display tank - that begs the question, what quarantine process are you passing this fish through? Lymphocystis isn't a huge issue, but so many time, I see new fish that have that, but ALSO have communicable, more serious diseases. You need to clear those for this fish before moving it to the DT.

Jay
The QT process so far has been ttm (36hr cycles) for 14 days to evade ich and velvet. During those 14 days I also did two rounds of prazi. I now have the fish in an established qt for the next 14 days. If you have advice on what else I should treat with I will do so. My plan was to observe and react as necessary.

As an example I could do kanaplex/metro/focus to rid internal worms but I was only going to do so if I noticed white poop.
 
The QT process so far has been ttm (36hr cycles) for 14 days to evade ich and velvet. During those 14 days I also did two rounds of prazi. I now have the fish in an established qt for the next 14 days. If you have advice on what else I should treat with I will do so. My plan was to observe and react as necessary.

As an example I could do kanaplex/metro/focus to rid internal worms but I was only going to do so if I noticed white poop.
O.K., you may have heard, I'm NOT a fan of TTM, but it does work for ich if done properly. I have my suspicions that it doesn't work for Amyloodinium (velvet) as well, as the thought is that this parasite may be able to stay in the fish's gills during its life cycle....just in enough cases to keep the disease spreading. However, velvet is a lot rarer than ich....


Jay
 
O.K., you may have heard, I'm NOT a fan of TTM, but it does work for ich if done properly. I have my suspicions that it doesn't work for Amyloodinium (velvet) as well, as the thought is that this parasite may be able to stay in the fish's gills during its life cycle....just in enough cases to keep the disease spreading. However, velvet is a lot rarer than ich....


Jay
I hear you. I assume ich and velvet would show up within a month though, right? Those are both pretty aggressive parasites. I'm not sure about Brooke or urnoma but I could be proactive and treat for those.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top