Blue/Green Chromis Death in QT

[Instigate]

I floated the bag and drip acclimated for an hour then released them. I didn't notice any rapid breathing but I might have just not noticed because they were hiding in the PVC elbow and I'm inexperienced. Anyways, the first night I tried to feed them some frozen mysis and they came out of the elbow but didn't eat any and quickly went back to hiding. This morning I tried again but they just stayed in the elbow and I noticed rapid breathing. So I read about it and it seemed like that sometimes happens on the first day or so. So I just hoped they would become less stressed to the new environment. Later I came back from the store and one of the chromis was dead. I fished him out and he had a slight red patch on one side. I should have stopped and taken a picture but I didn't. So seeing the red mark on a chromis I assumed it was uronema. I didn't have metroplex or general cure on hand so I dosed the tank with prazipro. Then a few hours later the other one died. He was swimming around a little bit but seemed dazed. Then he was barely swimming and being tossed around in the powerhead's current. So I turned the powerhead off. It's a 10 gallon tank with an aquaclear 70 on it so I wasn't too worried about o2 with the amount of surface agitation it provides. Then with the powerhead off he was just laying on the bottom and very slowly moving toward the PVC then wedged himself under it on the outside. He was like that for 20 min or so and I thought he stopped breathing and died so I moved the PVC and started to net him and he came to a bit. So I backed off. Then for a while he was swimming around quickly in short bursts then went back to being at the bottom. Flipping upside down and correcting himself till he got wedged under the PVC again and finally died. When I took him out he had no signs of uronema as far as I can tell. I took pictures of that one not that it's much use I think. My parameters were always fine so I'm thinking it was a disease or parasite.

I would like to hear any opinions on what I should have done differently that might have made a difference. I think one mistake was to drip acclimate to the 1.025sg of the QT. I should have adjusted the QT to the 1.020 that the fish came in. Other than that, I guess I should have had metroplex on had but should I have started them on that day 1? I have read that it's best to let them adjust for the first few days and get them feeding before giving any meds.

Parameters when I added the fish:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 2
Ph - 8.2
Dkh - 11
SG - 1.025
Temp - 79 F

Parameters 3-4 hours before first death:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
Ph - 8.2
Dkh - 11
SG - 1.025
Temp - 78.8 F

Feeling very disappointed and disheartened I failed to test after the deaths. I tore down the tank for sterilization. Planning on sterilizing it tomorrow and setting it up again with a sponge I have had in the cycled DT for a month or so.

 

[iemsparticus]

First of all... I'm very sorry for your loss.

As you alluded already, I would not drip acclimate fish. The Amonia levels in their shipping bag aren't nearly as toxic because the pH of the water gets very low due to the increased presence of C02. As soon as that bag is open, the pH goes up drastically, which makes the Amonia dangerous. I don't see any signs of Amonia poisoning on the fish in the picture, but that's something I would change for sure. Adjust salinity like you said, float the bag for about 30 minutes to temp acclimate, and get them in your QT (without getting their shipping water in your tank) as soon as the bag is opened.

Secondly, I would just prophylacticly treat Chromis for uronema... it's that common. Again, I don't see any signs of it on your dead fish picture, but I would do it for all Chromis period.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what else you could have done... @Humblefish or @melypr1985 might have a better idea.

 

[Instigate]

First of all... I'm very sorry for your loss.

As you alluded already, I would not drip acclimate fish. The Amonia levels in their shipping bag aren't nearly as toxic because the pH of the water gets very low due to the increased presence of C02. As soon as that bag is open, the pH goes up drastically, which makes the Amonia dangerous. I don't see any signs of Amonia poisoning on the fish in the picture, but that's something I would change for sure. Adjust salinity like you said, float the bag for about 30 minutes to temp acclimate, and get them in your QT (without getting their shipping water in your tank) as soon as the bag is opened.

Secondly, I would just prophylacticly treat Chromis for uronema... it's that common. Again, I don't see any signs of it on your dead fish picture, but I would do it for all Chromis period.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what else you could have done... @Humblefish or @melypr1985 might have a better idea.

Thanks for the advise! Metoplex is ordered for next time.

Also here is a video of the last one a couple hours before death:

 

[Maritimer]

Were these guys shipped, or did they come from the LFS?

Do you know what the shop / shipper keeps their water at for salinity?

A rise in specific gravity of more than a point or three should take place over days, rather than hours. It's generally better to adjust the QT to match the water the fish arrive in.

~Bruce

 

[iemsparticus]

Were these guys shipped, or did they come from the LFS?

Do you know what the shop / shipper keeps their water at for salinity?

A rise in specific gravity of more than a point or three should take place over days, rather than hours. It's generally better to adjust the QT to match the water the fish arrive in.

~Bruce

The OP states the water the fish came in was 1.020SG, and his QT was at 1.025.

 

[Brew12]

I think one mistake was to drip acclimate to the 1.025sg of the QT. I should have adjusted the QT to the 1.020 that the fish came in.

I would agree that this is the most likely cause. Osmotic shock will typically kill a fish in 2 or 3 days. The symptoms do line up. Also, did you measure the salinity at the store or did they tell you what the salinity is? I know one of my LFS says they keep their water at 1.018 but I typically find it at 1.015.

As you alluded already, I would not drip acclimate fish. The Amonia levels in their shipping bag aren't nearly as toxic because the pH of the water gets very low due to the increased presence of C02.

Normally, I would agree with this. Unless you have a long drive from the LFS odds are it won't be much of a problem so I don't suspect it to be the cause in the case. For mail ordered fish? Absolutely.

 

[Instigate]

They came from a LFS about 10 min away. I asked the employee about the SG and he said they keep them at 1.020. And he actually recommended that I drip acclimate for 45 min rather than match the SG. I'll definitely just match the SG next time.

Should I wait till they are eating to treat prophylactically?

 

[Humblefish]

Should I wait till they are eating to treat prophylactically?

Yes, unless you are seeing visible or behavioral symptoms of a disease.

 

[Instigate]

Yes, unless you are seeing visible or behavioral symptoms of a disease.

And would the rapid breathing count as that?

 

[Humblefish]

And would the rapid breathing count as that?

Unfortunately, that can mean several things:

1. Parasites or worms inside the gills, making it more difficult for a fish to breathe.
2. Ammonia in the water
3. Low oxygen in the water
4. A toxin of some kind in the water

If you can eliminate 2-4 from the equation, then you are left with #1. From there a FW dip can help determine whether or not flukes (worms) are the culprit: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

If no flukes show, you are left with just parasites afflicting the gills. It's all process of elimination.

 

[Instigate]

I see. So I should have acted as soon as I saw rapid breathing right?

 

[Humblefish]

I see. So I should have acted as soon as I saw rapid breathing right?

Yes.

Unless the fish is exerting himself or excited for some reason, rapid breathing is not normal and is often the first sign of a problem. However, you should first rule out any environmental factors (ammonia, low O2, toxin in the water, etc.) before considering a disease in the gills as the reason for the labored breathing.

 

[Instigate]

Yes.

Unless the fish is exerting himself or excited for some reason, rapid breathing is not normal and is often the first sign of a problem. However, you should first rule out any environmental factors (ammonia, low O2, toxin in the water, etc.) before considering a disease in the gills as the reason for the labored breathing.

Got it. Thank you so much for the info.