Blue Reef Chromis missing scales and black spot

[miPapareef]

New batch of fish arrived Tuesday and are in QT
2 blue reef chromis
1 flame hawk
1 tiger watchman goby

The smaller chromis has lost some scales and has a black spot. Do other signs physical or behavioral in any of the fish.

Currently doing the TTM. So they get transferred to the 2nd tank later today and will get prazipro tomorrow.

What should I do for these fish?

 

[Maritimer]

How many of them are in the tank?

Two things come to mind: Aggression (which damsels, including reef chromis, are noted for) and Uronema, which is ultra-common in green chromis, though I think less so in blue reefs.

Looking at the injuries in the photo, I'd say that aggression is somewhat more likely.

As for the black spot, not sure about that one but @Humblefish or @melypr1985 might have seen its like.

~Bruce

 

[miPapareef]

Thanks for the reply and you are probably right.

There are 2 chromis in there and I have seen the larger one chase this smaller one. I didn't think it was very aggressively but obviously a problem.

I'll build a divider out of eggcrate and separate them until I find a better solution.

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree that looks like damage. Unfortunately I don't see that getting better if kept in the group. Large numbers or one is a frequent result... :/

 

[ngoodermuth]

Since he's already in QT, I might go ahead and dose metroplex since uronema is still very much a possibility with chromis. Plus it has antibiotic properties.

Other than that, keep them separated and well-fed. How big is the tank they are going in? Any other resident chromis already there to break up aggression?

 

[miPapareef]

Thanks again for the help.

They're going into a 75 gallon tank with 2 clowns, a yellow Tang, and the other fish that are in QT now.

Just for fun here's this mornings full tank shot just after the lights came on.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm always paranoid about uronema with any chromis damsels.

@clsanchez77 Did any of your Blue Reef Chromis develop black spots or look like this?

 

[melypr1985]

that looks a lot like the issue my group of blue reef chromis had. They did well as long as they were in copper after being treated (both in the water and fed) with metroplex. Once they were removed from the copper system they all died off slowly though. Really stinks.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

New batch of fish arrived Tuesday and are in QT
2 blue reef chromis
1 flame hawk
1 tiger watchman goby

The smaller chromis has lost some scales and has a black spot. Do other signs physical or behavioral in any of the fish.

Currently doing the TTM. So they get transferred to the 2nd tank later today and will get prazipro tomorrow.

What should I do for these fish?

I am no expert like @Humblefish or @melpyr1985 but I would assume Uronema and treat as such. If you have any antibiotics laying around such as cipro or clindmycin (or you can have your wife, mom, sis, etc call their dr and say they have a UTI). Crush up a small bit 1/4 pill or less and dissolve in some warm salt water and treat the qt every 24hrs for at least 7 days. These are often the medications used to treat similar uronema class bacterium in humans. Since these are powerful antibiotics though you will have to do 100% water changes daily in between doses. These antibiotics are mostly gram independent they will annihilate the bio filter of your qt in pretty much 1 dose. You could probably try to bind and feed with focus as well but I have never had much success with fish eating medicated foods so I usually try to treat the water column. I was able to cure uronema in a few different chromis including this little guy (upper right hand corner) who was half dead with open sores when I got him! Happy reefing!

 

[clsanchez77]

@Humblefish, why yes the still have them today and I think I have figured it out. Turns out my two Blue Chromis are big fans of some S&M Every evening when my HO's shut off and the LEDs fade into sunset, the two chromis go into a violent ritual. They chase each other rapidly in tight circles up and down the water column, at the same time taking strikes at each other. They try to ram each other and their defensive posture to avoid getting rammed is to swim faster and in tighter circles. When they are doing this, I find they cannot be distracted. Not by feeding, not by me tapping the glass, not even by trying to grab them! They just move over and start the ritual again. It is amazing to watch.

As a reminder, I gave 2 treatments of Praziquantel followed by 4 weeks of Copper Safe AND followed by metroplex and kanaplex treatment for 10 days. Concurrently, they were given 6 weeks of feeding with metroplex and focus. If there was Uronema, I am 99% certain I wiped it out. And as we discussed over on our local form, the supplier did confirm he had uronema in his facility after I lost the first batch. I assumed the replacement batch was infected as well but I never saw it.

So I have determined the black marks are scarring from the in fighting and nothing else. But as advised above, I would definitely treat all of the prophylactically for all the standards and uronema. They are a short lived fish and don't seem to have good immune systems. As I've said before, these guys only serve one purpose in nature - feed the bigger fish.

I plan to batch another set this fall to see how a small group behaves in my tank. I may QT two sets of two and then introduce them to my tank so I have 3 sets of 2. Should be interesting to see.

 

[clsanchez77]

I agree that looks like damage. Unfortunately I don't see that getting better if kept in the group. Large numbers or one is a frequent result... :/

The larger numbers helps spread the aggression around. I have so far ended up with a pair and aside from my evening courtship described above, these two behave as a mated pair...swim together, feed together, walks in the parks and ramming the crap out of each other at sunset. After a round of fish boxing, they retreat into the same cave for the night. Not much different from any other married couple really. As a small fish, most chromis just are not long lived. The aggression is their natural social order. However in the wild, they each retreat to their individual territories, which are not that big. In the tank, our fish densities are just too big and they don't have that chance to get away from each other which is why I surmise the aggression leads to death in captivity but not in the wild.

I plan to experiment with another pair this fall to try and determine if they can be kept as multiple pairs vs a classic shoal. After a thorough QT of course.

that looks a lot like the issue my group of blue reef chromis had. They did well as long as they were in copper after being treated (both in the water and fed) with metroplex. Once they were removed from the copper system they all died off slowly though. Really stinks.

This is similar to my experience as well. I suspect the copper keeps them somewhat lethargic and unable to fight as they normally will. After copper, they regain their strength and have a better ability to pick each other off. I won't have my QT sterilized and ready for another round until October but I plan to experiment with them again. I think our understanding of how 'shoaling' chromis behave is way off.

 

[Humblefish]

@clsanchez77 Put a predator type fish in the tank. Give them something real to fear, so they'll stop squabbling and come together to defend against a common threat.

 

[clsanchez77]

@clsanchez77 Put a predator type fish in the tank. Give them something real to fear, so they'll stop squabbling and come together to defend against a common threat.

Maybe I will put the cat stand next to the tank ;Cat

 

[miPapareef]

Ok quick update before I start asking more questions.

Never did get a good divider between the two chromis, so they just stayed in the 15 gallon tank with each other. In the early morning when the lights first come on, I've seen them lock jaws and/or spin in circles fighting it out. During the day I only ever see a quick short chase but no contact.

Completed all the TTM with Prazipro and 12 days of MetroPlex dosed in the tank water and bound into the food. And everyone looked good when I left for vacation last Thursday.

The littler chromis grew back scales and maybe has only one to go. Picture from today.

Now the tough part and questions:

I returned home yesterday evening and the tiger goby has what might be a red inflamed gill, but I could really tell, and he was eating and sifting sand. This morning it's worse and I take a pic hoping to find time at work to upload and ask for help, but by the time I get home it's dead.

This is from this morning and then when I pulled it out of the tank.

I dipped it in rodi water but I didn't see anything come off.

Any ideas about what this was and what should I do with the 2 chromis and the flame hawk?

 

[Humblefish]

Any ideas about what this was and what should I do with the 2 chromis and the flame hawk?

It's either ammonia burn or an infection near his gills.

 

[clsanchez77]

From the description I would have also suspected ammonia burn, but seeing it tell me otherwise. It almost looks mechanical. If it was parasitic, Prazi-Pro would have taken care of it. Perhaps your TTM and treatment methods shook off the original culprit, but infection ultimately did him in. Metroplex by itself has a limited range.

Sorry you lost your fish. I try to learn with each loss to better prevent the next.