Blue Throat Fairy Wrasse Aggression

[reefinginBD]

Hey guys, I have a 5 feet long 150 gallon tank, and I just added a blue throat fairy wrasse today, I’ve heard from some people that it’s very aggrieved and others have said that it is peaceful, I’ve talked with the fish store and they didn’t have any problems with the fish so far either. The temperament is also stated as peaceful in LiveAquaria.

The wrasses I currently have:
Cleaner Wrasse X 1
Leopard Wrasse X 1
Coris Wrasse X 1

The wrasses that I plan on getting:
McCosker Flasher Wrasse X 1
Naoko Fairy Wrasse X 1
Earmuff Wrasse X 1

Will the blue throat wrasse cause much aggression with any of these above mentioned wrasses? I’ve read that it may be a little aggressive with the McCosker since that is also a flasher wrasse but that it’s not really aggressive in the sense that they fight or anything but rather they flash at each other thus keeping both of their colours vibrant. Which is good in a way as you get to see them vibrant more often. Do let me know!

TIA

 

[shakacuz]

@Slocke @i cant think

 

[reefinginBD]

Bump

 

[BriansBrain]

Each fish will have its own personality but here’s a relative compatibility chart amongst fairy wrasses that has helped me. Blue throats are aggressive according to this chart

 

[i cant think]

Hey guys, I have a 5 feet long 150 gallon tank, and I just added a blue throat fairy wrasse today, I’ve heard from some people that it’s very aggrieved and others have said that it is peaceful, I’ve talked with the fish store and they didn’t have any problems with the fish so far either. The temperament is also stated as peaceful in LiveAquaria.

The wrasses I currently have:
Cleaner Wrasse X 1
Leopard Wrasse X 1
Coris Wrasse X 1

The wrasses that I plan on getting:
McCosker Flasher Wrasse X 1
Naoko Fairy Wrasse X 1
Earmuff Wrasse X 1

Will the blue throat wrasse cause much aggression with any of these above mentioned wrasses? I’ve read that it may be a little aggressive with the McCosker since that is also a flasher wrasse but that it’s not really aggressive in the sense that they fight or anything but rather they flash at each other thus keeping both of their colours vibrant. Which is good in a way as you get to see them vibrant more often. Do let me know!

TIA

This may be more detailed than you expect - and thus likely a lot more confusing however I will try to keep it somewhat easy to understand;

Flashing is different to all out aggression. Now they have very similar patterns;
- Sometimes circling round each other
- New colours you’ve not seen before
- Swimming in sync or sometimes one chasing the other

Now, the main things that separate flashing from aggression are;
- One having odd markings after displays
- Locking Jaws
- Sometimes one will be hidden in a corner and not leave it much

Now, with those 3 identifiers and 3 similarities out of the way, this is where the chart above comes in as well as “general” (Only really general knowledge if you understand wrasses back to front ) knowledge.
So, you want to add a Cirrhilabrus naokoae, on the chart these two complexes are fairly closely related as they are close to each other on the chart. As you can see if you follow the lines they have a common ancestor fairly early as you go back.
Say you wanted to mix a Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus and Cirrhilabrus cyanogularis then you wouldn’t have a huge issue as they split off fairly far back - about 4 lines back from the cyanogularis complex. Below is the chart but drawn on to show where those splits are.

Now, one issue with the other species of Wrasse you want to mix with your cyanogularis is the fact it’s a Paracheilinus species. These guys are notorious for being risky when it comes to aggressors and adding them after. This is a genus that I have found doesn’t fair well to aggression until their established - I’ve got 2 Paracheilinus species which consistently go for each other daily but have yet to cause any true harm. Now the reason it works is due to them being on the same aggression level. I had the same occur with two Lubbock’s Fairy Wrasses - they got along all day but every night would brawl with one becoming a victor (usually the Cebu).
Now I know, that was a lot about mixing same species and different Paracheilinus but the aggression working. This is to show my next point of;
Cirrhilabrus cyanogularis is a different aggression level to many Paracheilinus - I find the only species from that genus to be on the same level is the Paracheilinus octotaenia (NOT to be confused with Pseudocheilinus octotaenia). Mccoskeri is one which can be somewhat boisterous but it depends how established your Cyanogularis will be when you get this next batch.

Now, tank size can be with you however I have a 5’ 180G tank and yet I have had to rehome even the most peaceful of wrasses for aggression issues. I had to rehome my Cleaner Wrasse today as he went straight for my favourite Pencil Wrasse - My Kaleidos Pencil on Monday. Yet I also had a very mildly behaved Jade Wrasse - He was boisterous but he wasn’t aggressive as they are suggested to be.
Hope this helps! Feel free to ask any questions here or just PM me

 

[reefinginBD]

So after reading what you said and from what I understand, to put it short, since I got the blue throated wrasse, I will not be able to add the naoko fairy wrasse as they are too close to each other and will fight.

But I should not have any problems with the yellow Coris, cleaner, leopard, or the earmuff wrasse.

And when it comes to the Mccoskeri if I can add it within the next 6 months will it be ok? The blue throated wrasse was just added today and if I can get my hands on a McCosker within the next 6 months and add him in will it then be any problem? Will temporarily removing the fish and putting him in the sump help the McCosker settle in for a few days before adding him back in help? Or if I want to keep this fish I have to sacrifice both the naoko and the McCosker?

If it is ok to keep the McCosker with him then I would just not get the naoko and be fine with it as from what I understand he should be alright with the wrasses that I already have and also the earmuff. It’s just when I add the McCosker will dictate what happens in the tank.

I’ve faced aggression issues in my freshwater tanks before as well, and I would take out the dominant fish for a 48-72 hour period before adding them back in after the new fish settles in. I’ve also used the simple mirror trick and also just feeding more heavily and adding the new fish at night. But this case is different, so do let me know!

TIA

 

[i cant think]

And when it comes to the Mccoskeri if I can add it within the next 6 months will it be ok? The blue throated wrasse was just added today and if I can get my hands on a McCosker within the next 6 months and add him in will it then be any problem? Will temporarily removing the fish and putting him in the sump help the McCosker settle in for a few days before adding him back in help? Or if I want to keep this fish I have to sacrifice both the naoko and the McCosker?

So, the sump method can work however with wrasses I have yet to be successful with it. I had a Cleaner Wrasse go rogue for my Pencil Wrasses and I sumped him for 1-2 weeks. I moved the rockwork around as well.
However, when I reintroduced the Cleaner he went into the rocks for the rest of the day - it was the next day that I had issues. The cleaner went straight after the Pencil.

Establishing with Cirrhilabrus and Paracheilinus species is actually very quick. I find within 2-3 weeks they’re established, sometimes it’s a week in the tank and they’re established.

Now, again - your tank size could be on your side and this mixing with all 3 species could work. However I wouldn’t chance it if you’re new to mixing species of Cirrhilabrus and Paracheilinus.

 

[reefinginBD]

So, the sump method can work however with wrasses I have yet to be successful with it. I had a Cleaner Wrasse go rogue for my Pencil Wrasses and I sumped him for 1-2 weeks. I moved the rockwork around as well.
However, when I reintroduced the Cleaner he went into the rocks for the rest of the day - it was the next day that I had issues. The cleaner went straight after the Pencil.

Establishing with Cirrhilabrus and Paracheilinus species is actually very quick. I find within 2-3 weeks they’re established, sometimes it’s a week in the tank and they’re established.

Now, again - your tank size could be on your side and this mixing with all 3 species could work. However I wouldn’t chance it if you’re new to mixing species of Cirrhilabrus and Paracheilinus.

I’ll give it a go then and see if I can keep the McCosker with this guy, if it’s not possible then I’ll switch him up with another wrasse. What other wrasse can I keep instead of the McCosker if he is not compatible for any reason.
I’ll be adding a few fish at once, possibly the earmuff, as well as a Midas blenny, yellow tang, royal gramma and long nose hawkfish. So I’ll try to add the McCosker at the same time as them, shouldn’t that help as well? Since it won’t just be one fish added but a few at the same time, this dividing the attention among several fish instead of one? Do let me know.

TIA

 

[i cant think]

I’ll give it a go then and see if I can keep the McCosker with this guy, if it’s not possible then I’ll switch him up with another wrasse. What other wrasse can I keep instead of the McCosker if he is not compatible for any reason.
I’ll be adding a few fish at once, possibly the earmuff, as well as a Midas blenny, yellow tang, royal gramma and long nose hawkfish. So I’ll try to add the McCosker at the same time as them, shouldn’t that help as well? Since it won’t just be one fish added but a few at the same time, this dividing the attention among several fish instead of one? Do let me know.

TIA

So, dividing from 1 fish to another generally works but it has to be fish of the same body shape and often with wrasses the same genus. The other species will be ignored. I recommend if you must try this combination then go for either another Paracheilinus species or a not so closely related Cirrhilabrus species.

Also - be cautious with Hawkfish and Wrasses. I had a Lyretail Hawk with my wrasses that killed my male Radiant and nearly had my big Diamond Tail (he passed for another reason that I can’t remember exactly).

 

[reefinginBD]

So, dividing from 1 fish to another generally works but it has to be fish of the same body shape and often with wrasses the same genus. The other species will be ignored. I recommend if you must try this combination then go for either another Paracheilinus species or a not so closely related Cirrhilabrus species.

Also - be cautious with Hawkfish and Wrasses. I had a Lyretail Hawk with my wrasses that killed my male Radiant and nearly had my big Diamond Tail (he passed for another reason that I can’t remember exactly).

I see, thank you so much for the help!

I’ve had a hawkfish and wrasse before and never had any problems. Will the long nose cause problems? If they do then I can just not get it :/

 

[i cant think]

I see, thank you so much for the help!

I’ve had a hawkfish and wrasse before and never had any problems. Will the long nose cause problems? If they do then I can just not get it :/

Im not too sure about the Long Nose but its something to be cautious of.

After my bad experience with a Lyretail I’ve not really had Hawks in my own reefs.

 

[reefinginBD]

I’m sorry to hear that :/

I’ll give it a try and if it doesn’t work I’ll remove it.

Thanks for the help again!

 

[OrionN]

I have blue throat fairy wrasse in my aquarium, a 320 gal DT and have no problem with him unless there is a wrasse that continue to fight with him. He is the dominant wrasse but does not excessively injure or chase another wrasse. Once I did have a Aquamarine Fairy that constantly fish with him for weeks. They were evenly match in size and aggressiveness. They would chase each other around the tank. At any moment one would chase the other ten it reverses the next moment. IMO, that was the problem, I have to remove him. Later I added another Blue throat juvenile, and he grew up in the tank and it was no problem. The size of the tank may make a bid different.
Very beautiful fish

 

[OrionN]

.............

Now, with those 3 identifiers and 3 similarities out of the way, this is where the chart above comes in as well as “general” (Only really general knowledge if you understand wrasses back to front ) knowledge.
So, you want to add a Cirrhilabrus naokoae, on the chart these two complexes are fairly closely related as they are close to each other on the chart. As you can see if you follow the lines they have a common ancestor fairly early as you go back.
Say you wanted to mix a Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus and Cirrhilabrus cyanogularis then you wouldn’t have a huge issue as they split off fairly far back - about 4 lines back from the cyanogularis complex. Below is the chart but drawn on to show where those splits are.

........

FWIW, these are generalization. Given enough spaces and a lot of crevices and nooks, Fairy wrasses tend to coexist well. Problem when there are two fishes in the tank that are evenly match and one will not capitulate. Once they exert dominant, Fairy wrasses tend not to continue to chase the other wrasse excessively, at least in my tank where there are plenty of space and food. I have the exact situation above and have to remove the Blue Throat because of nonstop aggression between the two.
These guys are extremely fast when flashing and very difficult to have a good picture of them flashing.

 

[i cant think]

FWIW, these are generalization. Given enough spaces and a lot of crevices and nooks, Fairy wrasses tend to coexist well. Problem when there are two fishes in the tank that are evenly match and one will not capitulate. Once they exert dominant, Fairy wrasses tend not to continue to chase the other wrasse excessively, at least in my tank where there are plenty of space and food. I have the exact situation above and have to remove the Blue Throat because of nonstop aggression between the two.

Honestly, generalisation is best when new to mixing wrasses especially the Fairies. Me, Slocke, Salty, Crabby and You have mixed a bunch of wrasses and had success and issues so we generally get away with mixing several species that “shouldn’t” be mixed.

 

[OrionN]

So after reading what you said and from what I understand, to put it short, since I got the blue throated wrasse, I will not be able to add the naoko fairy wrasse as they are too close to each other and will fight.

But I should not have any problems with the yellow Coris, cleaner, leopard, or the earmuff wrasse.

And when it comes to the Mccoskeri if I can add it within the next 6 months will it be ok? The blue throated wrasse was just added today and if I can get my hands on a McCosker within the next 6 months and add him in will it then be any problem? Will temporarily removing the fish and putting him in the sump help the McCosker settle in for a few days before adding him back in help? Or if I want to keep this fish I have to sacrifice both the naoko and the McCosker?

If it is ok to keep the McCosker with him then I would just not get the naoko and be fine with it as from what I understand he should be alright with the wrasses that I already have and also the earmuff. It’s just when I add the McCosker will dictate what happens in the tank.

I’ve faced aggression issues in my freshwater tanks before as well, and I would take out the dominant fish for a 48-72 hour period before adding them back in after the new fish settles in. I’ve also used the simple mirror trick and also just feeding more heavily and adding the new fish at night. But this case is different, so do let me know!

TIA

Ideally, you want to add the aggressive wrasse later and let the more docile ones establish first. It also best to add aggressive wrasse and juveniles.
I have Naoko and Blue throat without problem, but again my large tank, and the number of wrasses may be my saving grace here.

 

[reefinginBD]

Hey guys I’m sorry for bringing this post back to life, this is the new list that I made for my 150 gallon tank but I’m still trying to find an alternative to the Desjardinii tang as I really like how they look.


Large Size Fish:

Tomini Tang X 1
Purple Tang X 1
Blue Tang X 1
Yellow Tang X 1
Desjardinii Tang X 1

Small Size Fish:

Clownfish X 2
Purple Firefish X 1
Royal Gramma X 1
Midas Blenny X 1
Cleaner Wrasse X 1
Choat’s Red Leopard Wrasse X 1
Yellow Coris Wrasse X 1
Blue Throat Fairy Wrasse X 1
Earmuff Wrasse X 1
Lyretail Anthias X 4 (1 male snd 3 females)
Chromis X 6

The ticked ones are the fish that I already have. My LFS is getting the yellow tang (ones from biota) and royal gramma in stock within the first week of August so I’ll get those two then.

It would really help out jf you guys could have a look at the list of wrasses that I want and which ones I can keep.

I currently have an ornate leopard wrasse but I want to switch that out with a Choati Leopard Wrasse as they are really beautiful, but then again I’ve heard that they don’t live for that long, even the pellet feeding ones. So please let me know, thank you!

And finally, from what I can see the blue throated wrasse that I added will not have any problems with the other wrasses in this list but I’m worried that because there isn’t any other flasher or fairy wrasse, he won’t be flashing often and thus will loose colour. Let me know if I’m wrong or not and what I can do to help. Mine is still really small but I’m waiting for him to grow a little bit more so that the colours really pop up and everyone can see how beautiful it really is.

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE GUYS FOR REPLYING

 

[i cant think]

Hey guys I’m sorry for bringing this post back to life, this is the new list that I made for my 150 gallon tank but I’m still trying to find an alternative to the Desjardinii tang as I really like how they look.


Large Size Fish:

Tomini Tang X 1
Purple Tang X 1
Blue Tang X 1
Yellow Tang X 1
Desjardinii Tang X 1

Small Size Fish:

Clownfish X 2
Purple Firefish X 1
Royal Gramma X 1
Midas Blenny X 1
Cleaner Wrasse X 1
Choat’s Red Leopard Wrasse X 1
Yellow Coris Wrasse X 1
Blue Throat Fairy Wrasse X 1
Earmuff Wrasse X 1
Lyretail Anthias X 4 (1 male snd 3 females)
Chromis X 6

The ticked ones are the fish that I already have. My LFS is getting the yellow tang (ones from biota) and royal gramma in stock within the first week of August so I’ll get those two then.

It would really help out jf you guys could have a look at the list of wrasses that I want and which ones I can keep.

I currently have an ornate leopard wrasse but I want to switch that out with a Choati Leopard Wrasse as they are really beautiful, but then again I’ve heard that they don’t live for that long, even the pellet feeding ones. So please let me know, thank you!

And finally, from what I can see the blue throated wrasse that I added will not have any problems with the other wrasses in this list but I’m worried that because there isn’t any other flasher or fairy wrasse, he won’t be flashing often and thus will loose colour. Let me know if I’m wrong or not and what I can do to help. Mine is still really small but I’m waiting for him to grow a little bit more so that the colours really pop up and everyone can see how beautiful it really is.

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE GUYS FOR REPLYING

The Choati may want to be a very very last or dream fish until you get a feel for other leopard species - I would leave it a good 3-5 years of owning other species before considering that. The choati is the top of the difficulty level for that genus.
Unless you work in/have worked in or with an LFS I find most people haven’t faced true issues in leopards until you keep them for 3-5 years. By that time most of the issues with a choati become easy to deal with.

 

[OrionN]

The Desjardini and the Blue tangs are going to be a little large for that tank.. The purple should go in last of the tangs,
The blue throat Fairy should be the very last wrasse that going into that tank, small one if you can get it.

 

[reefinginBD]

The Choati may want to be a very very last or dream fish until you get a feel for other leopard species - I would leave it a good 3-5 years of owning other species before considering that. The choati is the top of the difficulty level for that genus.
Unless you work in/have worked in or with an LFS I find most people haven’t faced true issues in leopards until you keep them for 3-5 years. By that time most of the issues with a choati become easy to deal with.

Ah I see, well when I started this tank I didn’t follow what most people say about leopards and added the ornate which turned out well, maybe because I was lucky. Then I’ll wait and add the chaoti after some time or are there any other types of leopard wrasses that I can keep which are a little easier?