Bolus dosing

[yorky1]

Just general observation of dosing uptake, coral color, water clarity, ph/alk stability, icp testing. The usual.

Isn't that exactly what FM and Frag Farm have reported?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Isn't that exactly what FM and Frag Farm have reported?

Which would be ideal, wouldn’t it?

If one is trying to understand things, having people do tests with similar endpoints seems appropriate to me.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Working on it. After a week of it I would say that the results are inconclusive. Waiting a full 30 days before reporting data.

 

[yorky1]

Which would be ideal, wouldn’t it?

If one is trying to understand things, having people do tests with similar endpoints seems appropriate to me.

I agree totally, hobbyists testing and reporting back is the backbone of the hobby.
Frag Farm and Fauna Marin have kept large scale, successful grow out frag farms for many years presumably using several options of Alk/Cal/Mag delivery over the years. However, in the approximately 2 years since they started to develop the Bolus system both Doug (Frag Farm) and Claude (Fauna Marin) have seen growth and intense colouration they had never seen before. More and more hobbyists, particularly in Europe and the UK are reporting similar result within a few weeks of changing to the FM Bolus method. Mike Palleta a highly regarded hobbyist has also observed similar results when using the FM Bolus method.

 

[ReneReef]

I agree totally, hobbyists testing and reporting back is the backbone of the hobby.
Frag Farm and Fauna Marin have kept large scale, successful grow out frag farms for many years presumably using several options of Alk/Cal/Mag delivery over the years. However, in the approximately 2 years since they started to develop the Bolus system both Doug (Frag Farm) and Claude (Fauna Marin) have seen growth and intense colouration they had never seen before. More and more hobbyists, particularly in Europe and the UK are reporting similar result within a few weeks of changing to the FM Bolus method. Mike Palleta a highly regarded hobbyist has also observed similar results when using the FM Bolus method.

Yes, they say they have seen that. They don’t show it.

I would assume that for a coral farm (where color and growth equal revenue) those are the most important outcomes… So I’m baffled they seemingly haven’t documented this.

Also their method includes a drastic change in lighting. They don’t show what effects can be attributed to the change in lighting and what to the bolus way of dosing.

At the moment all data and described effects can easily be explained by the increased lighting. And the mislabelled KH content of the dosing fluid, which made people think they were dosing more KH than they actually were.

 

[Garf]

They don’t show what effects can be attributed to the change in lighting and what to the bolus way of dosing.

Unless I'm reading too much into this 6 month old video below, Doug appears to think it's the light (7 mins in) He also shows his light settings and except for a burst of white near the beginning and what appears to be a 13hr photoperiod, seems pretty standard; didn't hear any mention of Bolus;

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree totally, hobbyists testing and reporting back is the backbone of the hobby.
Frag Farm and Fauna Marin have kept large scale, successful grow out frag farms for many years presumably using several options of Alk/Cal/Mag delivery over the years. However, in the approximately 2 years since they started to develop the Bolus system both Doug (Frag Farm) and Claude (Fauna Marin) have seen growth and intense colouration they had never seen before. More and more hobbyists, particularly in Europe and the UK are reporting similar result within a few weeks of changing to the FM Bolus method. Mike Palleta a highly regarded hobbyist has also observed similar results when using the FM Bolus method.

I understand you accept their assertions despite actually not clarifying what they are comparing to, or what the criteria actually are. As a scientist, I know that the world is filled with discoveries that do not hold up after additional people try to replicate the effects, for a whole host of reasons. The reef hobby is also filled with them.

But if we accept the idea that it does work greater than anything they ever tried before, do you not wonder what about it is important? Lighting upgrade? Bolus dose? Bicarbonate dose? pH being higher? Alk being higher? Halogen dose? Peptide dose? Some combination of any of these things?

There would seem to be lots to figure out, and folks trying variations of the initial “discovery” seems entirely normal and appropriate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That is true. I would just expect their years of experience would be able to tell the difference between placebo and actual results.

Unless the entire underlying motive is to sell product whilst making "relevant" content aimed at both reinforcing the idea that they are brilliant and innovative, and of course selling more "proprietary" product.

These videos are not made out of the goodness of their hearts and love for reef keeping.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Claude has released a vid in a field, that appears to combine the "Bolus" thread with the "Ammonia is our friend" thread;

Coincidence or quick reaction marketing?

When you string these videos together and takes notes, he would appear to be the world's foremost expert in coral biology, bacterial science and chemistry. He has an extremely detailed scientific explanation for everything... and they all point to his products being proprietary to leverage this science. The problem (as I see it) is that we (as consumers) are left trying to unwind or verify one claim of dozens, all built upon each other. As fast as we examine one, numerous others are made and the goalposts shift.

The internet and this thread are chock full of responses indicating his 40 years of experience and his brilliance in reef science. I submit that there is a more marketing and cult of personality than there is hard science....

DIdn't Claude recently hedge when confronted and admit he is not a chemist, but instead employs them?

I shared a DIY chart with you a few months back @Garf - time to consult it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would also point out that there are experienced coral farmers for whom growth and color are very important that claim the opposite of the Fauna Marin bicarbonate dosing works best for them.

Chris Meckly, for example, says the kalkwasser is the way to go.

Perhaps neither is correct in all scenarios, but both cannot be correct in general.

 

[Domi]

Coincidence or quick reaction marketing?

When you string these videos together and takes notes, he would appear to be the world's foremost expert in coral biology, bacterial science and chemistry. He has an extremely detailed scientific explanation for everything... and they all point to his products being proprietary to leverage this science. The problem (as I see it) is that we (as consumers) are left trying to unwind or verify one claim of dozens, all built upon each other. As fast as we examine one, numerous others are made and the goalposts shift.

The internet and this thread are chock full of responses indicating his 40 years of experience and his brilliance in reef science. I submit that there is a more marketing and cult of personality than there is hard science....

DIdn't Claude recently hedge when confronted and admit he is not a chemist, but instead employs them?

I shared a DIY chart with you a few months back @Garf - time to consult it

In the video he says he knows better because he is not a scientist.
Also interesting that there is apparently less alk in balling light than advertised, it somehow is genius, people who switch to balling light will see increased alk consumption and conclude it is better than the others.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In the video he says he knows better because he is not a scientist.
Also interesting that there is apparently less alk in balling light than advertised, it somehow is genius, people who switch to balling light will see increased alk consumption and conclude it is better than the others.

I seriously hope the claims of better growth are not due to the mislabeled alk supplement concentration, and are based on actual measurements of corals somehow.

 

[GARRIGA]

Know this. He's getting a ton of free exposure

 

[JohannesFFM]

Started my new reef tank with bolus. before is used triton and all for reef. i cannot say much about growth but my lps and sps look happy. i noticed an increase in ph. before bolus it was 8.1-8 and now with bolus its 8.25-8.1.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Started my new reef tank with bolus. before is used triton and all for reef. i cannot say much about growth but my lps and sps look happy. i noticed an increase in ph. before bolus it was 8.1-8 and now with bolus its 8.25-8.1.

This pH difference is for two different tanks?

What does “before bolus” mean in terms of alk values and timing of dose?

What amount of alk gets boosted in the bolus?

What product(s) now?

 

[JohannesFFM]

This pH difference is for two different tanks?

What does “before bolus” mean in terms of alk values and timing of dose?

What amount of alk gets boosted in the bolus?

What product(s) now?

one new tank 8 weeks old. when i noticed alk cosumption i started dosing fm balling light using the bolus method. first 4 weeks with no alk consumption and no dosing ph was lower. then when i started dosing ph did rise. my other old tanks used triton and later tm allforreef. with both old tanks i had the problem of low ph exsp. at night dropping below 7.9. in my old tank i had to use co2 scrubber to increase ph. with my new tank and current setup it is not longer necessary. my tank consist of sps and lps moved from ym old tanks

 

[ingchr1]

...with both old tanks i had the problem of low ph exsp. at night dropping below 7.9...

Why was going below 7.9 at night a problem for your tank? What negative effects did you observe at that pH?

 

[BeanAnimal]

How much alk can an 8 week old tank use? If “bolus” 5ml….

 

[Yazannreef]

Why was going below 7.9 at night a problem for your tank? What negative effects did you observe at that pH?

I noticed a sub 7.8 PH at night while I was dosing bolus. The corals definitely showed signs of stress. The growth haulted and the colors were nothing to brag about.
I stopped and reverted back to kalkwasser. Never looked back.

The claims of driving pH up is just non sense as of course if you blast your light in the beginning of photoperiod it will drive pH up. The problem is is you coming out of a hole at that point with a low pH at night. I had 7.9 at night and high 8 pH during the day.

 

[JohannesFFM]

Hi, @week3 i moved corals from my old to my new tank. Thats why i need to Dose. I just want to post my results and wont argue if i need ph over 7.9 or not. I think its important to gather more info. Saw the Mike Paletta interview. very interesting tbh