Bolus dosing

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If folks have such solutions, the pH will help confirm what it is. Sodium bicarbonate will have pH between 8 and 9. Sodium carbonate will have a pH above 11.

 

[Superlightman]

If it is a mix it certainly could boost pH as the graph showed. A 1:1 mix would give a substantial pH boosting addition.

This is the point that is not clear, he claims there is only bicarbonate and that he have a secret for the solubility and same time he says it is a mix.
He also claims sodium carbonate will give old tank syndrome. He also claims that with normal sodium bicarbonate you may not obtain the same good results because of other additional products that are in the product ( not carbonate).

 

[Pod_01]

He also claims that with normal sodium bicarbonate you may not obtain the same good results because of other additional products that are in the product ( not carbonate).

I believe the reference is made to the trace elements that are part of the KH / Alk dosing. Or to be clear it is the Trace 3 that is added to KH component of FM Balling light system.

I am quite sure there is bicarbonate in FM KH mix. I baked it and it did provide the pH boost as explained by Randy. But re-reading Randy’s post 129 maybe I imagined things.
Anyways here is pH reading of FM Balling Light KH solution:

Held it in the container for 5 minutes.

As an aside I also had the impression that Balling method KH component always was a mix of Bicarbonate and carbonate. The actual ratio is not stated but it is a mix.

Reading this thread I am confused with the pH, I always had the impression that if we add extra Alk, pH will increase. So if you dose 1dKh and go from 7dkh to 8dkh that would increase pH. I guess I need to re-read the Alk additives/ back to school for me.

 

[Acroguy]

No, same as you I didn't, and in case I will I will make sure to let you all know.

My point is this entire discussion here is based on a YouTube video and full of criticism. If it's productive cristisim, fair.

So what's in the infamous video?

A guy, who is reefing since over 35 years is saying that he had better growth with dosing Alk once a day. And that's it.

All he says in relation to FM products is that it works great with them.

He never claims KH will be stable during the day or whatever. He is giving his perspective on why it's better and that's

The problem is the literal interpretation of what you are writing is that alk is never consumed in your aquarium.

We are trying to understand what exactly you are saying without much success.

The problem is the literal interpretation of what you are writing is that alk is never consumed in your aquarium.

We are trying to understand what exactly you are saying without much success.

I think he means that he adds 160 ml in the morning at once than measures 1 hour later. His alk is at 7.5 then when he measures the next day BEFORE dosing, his alk is still at 7.5 ?

Or the 2nd option he measures the same time everyday 1 hour after dosing, wich then its seems right that alk is at the same level.
But that does not mean that alk is stable troughout the day. You are just boosting your alk to the same setpoint with each dosing.
Maybe I am wrong

 

[DutchReefer420]

Ok. If that does not show the full alk addition, or close to it, I’d suggest making your own solution to try. I can give a recipe using grocery store baking soda that you may already have to ensure there’s not something wrong with the commercial fluid.

So late last night it seem to have droped 0.5DKH.
i have not been increasing the dose the last few days because it looked stable at 7.7DKH

It dropped from 7.7DKH at 19:30 to 7.2DKH at 07:30 the next morning just before the bolus dose.
I put this consumption in the calculator and added the extra amount to the dose.

The bolus dose starts at 08:05 and runs for a few minutes
I took a water sample right before the dose starts and of 1 min after the dose has finished

amount dosed 250ML of FM Balling light should be around the 2.3DKH

30-5-2024
7.7DKH at 00:37
7.7DKH at 19:30

31-5-2024
7.2DKH at 07:30
7.2DKH at 07:58
7.8DKH at 08:11 (1 min after the dose had finished)
8.1DKH at 08:15
8.1DKH at 08:22 (Lights come on at 08:30)
7.9DKH at 08:59
7.7DKH at 09:30
7.7DKH at 10:00
7.7DKH at 13:30

 

[Superlightman]

I believe the reference is made to the trace elements that are part of the KH / Alk dosing. Or to be clear it is the Trace 3 that is added to KH component of FM Balling light system.

I am quite sure there is bicarbonate in FM KH mix. I baked it and it did provide the pH boost as explained by Randy. But re-reading Randy’s post 129 maybe I imagined things.
Anyways here is pH reading of FM Balling Light KH solution:

Held it in the container for 5 minutes.

As an aside I also had the impression that Balling method KH component always was a mix of Bicarbonate and carbonate. The actual ratio is not stated but it is a mix.

Reading this thread I am confused with the pH, I always had the impression that if we add extra Alk, pH will increase. So if you dose 1dKh and go from 7dkh to 8dkh that would increase pH. I guess I need to re-read the Alk additives/ back to school for me.

I not think the name is about the trace elements as it is a product that is separately sold with his own name. Yes bicarbonate is inside for sure it is what he said, but probably not only bicarbonate as he says

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

Hello all, new member from Wales, UK here after searching the net this week to see if Bolus had started making waves on the forums etc! I have an acro dominated Reefer 250 tank!

I was one of the very early adopters here in the UK (I started second week of February), I had ran a sodium hydroxide based 2 part widely used here in the UK for around a year prior and had struggled with massive precipitation, inability to maintain sufficient trace levels etc. I switched in December to Fauna Balling Light and noticed greater stability and better ICP results in terms of maintaining trace levels, however, the one 'downside' to this switch for me was the sudden drop in pH - I'd gone from a daily peak of ~8.4 to maxing out at roughly 8.1 if I was lucky using a co2 scrubber too!

After speaking with Doug from Frag Farm during an ICP consultation about my issues with suppressed pH he mentioned the Bolus method he'd been extensively working on and researching that was at that point being trialled by FM Reefers Club etc. I noted down the changes, removed my co2 scrubber, put on my big boy pants and pulled the trigger!

So, what have I noticed? Being mindful of Randy's comment around his priority for truth and accuracy to the highest degree I will share some screenshots and personal observations.

Bolus is dosed at 10:30am (red line), lights come on 11:00am with no ramp up and run full spectrum for 2 hours before the whites dial down and normal schedule resumes - I already ran an 11.5hr photoperiod - notice how I now start the day with a pH of around 8.1 too.

Here is a one week pre-Bolus pH graph using the very same FM Balling Light (apologies its a phone screenshot). I started Bolus on the 9th Feb - you can see I start to make gains around 3 days later on the very end bar.

6 weeks later (the earliest I can get data for as I switched from my Apex A3 pro to GHL Profilux - both were brand new with new and correctly calibrated probes, Apex just wasn't for me.

I'm no Reef Chemist, nor do I claim to be, but the alk curves mentioned in the HTU are also reflected on my own system - I ran my KHD to test 24 times in a day and here is the graph from that - note that I dose roughly 110ml so 2dKH into a 275ltr tank (I have much bigger sump than standard), the full 2dKH is never seen on a test which in my mind backs up what the HTU says around this matter :

As far as my reef tank benefits, what I have witnessed aligns closely with the HTU too, growth, colouration and polyp extension on all of my acros has increased - the corals don't lie! KH consumption is up from 50ml/day to 110ml and calcium has followed suit with an increase too.

Overall I'm happy with my switch to Bolus - for sure it has worked for me and based on the Fauna Facebook groups etc it seems to be the consensus with all those who have switched too. The best thing - I didn't need to buy anything new! I reprogrammed my lights and dosers and that was it.

Enjoy

 

[Pod_01]

I not think the name is about the trace elements as it is a product that is separately sold with his own name. Yes bicarbonate is inside for sure it is what he said, but probably not only bicarbonate as he says

Well FM does mention there is polymer inside.

Honestly when I read that I was like yup, sure… It tells me something but I did not get much out of it. For all intents and purposes it may just be some impurities in FM bicarbonate…

At the end of the day bicarbonate is baking soda. If the premium price includes some peptide polymers and these polymers do something that is nice. Maybe the behaviour is caused by the polymer, I don’t know.

Reefers can experiment with clean bicarbonate to see if there is benefit using Bolus approach or it leads to the same results.

I don’t think FM or Frag Farm would have developed or released data on Bolus using clean bicarbonate since that is not something they sell. The reality is there are no altruistic businesses.

But us reefers can definitively dig and try to figure out what it does or doesn’t do.

We know it should be bicarbonate, the pH is 8.7. When dosed in one shot Alk for me and @DutchReefer420 seem to follow not the expected behaviour. It doesn’t seem to instantly raise by 1 or 2 dKh instead it seems flatter.
There is definitely delay, but I don’t understand why.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There is never any delay in detecting bicarbonate. Seawater alk is 80-90% bicarbonate. Any delay would come from other ingredients. Such as metabolism of this peptide just like AFR metabolism.

I’m not sure what peptide they use and what it actually accomplishes, but I don’t like to use secret ingredient products. The description gives me great cause for concern. Assuming it is anything related to reality, what is an excess element and who decided that every tank needs less of them?

 

[KrisReef]

I am shocked that a company puts out such utterly and grossly incorrect ideas. They need to send someone at the company to study chemistry before spouting nonsense.

I’m on a phone now and it’s hard to write long passages, but surely such misleading info deserves a long and detailed response.

I couldn't look at this thread when it was first posted because I am familiar with the proper use of the term "Bolus."
(from the Oxford online

bo·lus
[ˈbōləs]
noun

1. a small rounded mass of a substance, especially of chewed food at the moment of swallowing.
   • a type of large pill used in veterinary medicine.
     Similar:
     pill
     capsule
     lozenge
     caplet
     pastille
     pellet
   • medicine
     a single dose of a drug or other medicinal preparation given all at once.
   
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   The method described doesn't fit the classical definition?
   
   
   
2. 

 

[Garf]

So late last night it seem to have droped 0.5DKH.
i have not been increasing the dose the last few days because it looked stable at 7.7DKH

It dropped from 7.7DKH at 19:30 to 7.2DKH at 07:30 the next morning just before the bolus dose.
I put this consumption in the calculator and added the extra amount to the dose.

The bolus dose starts at 08:05 and runs for a few minutes
I took a water sample right before the dose starts and of 1 min after the dose has finished

amount dosed 250ML of FM Balling light should be around the 2.3DKH

30-5-2024
7.7DKH at 00:37
7.7DKH at 19:30

31-5-2024
7.2DKH at 07:30
7.2DKH at 07:58
7.8DKH at 08:11 (1 min after the dose had finished)
8.1DKH at 08:15
8.1DKH at 08:22 (Lights come on at 08:30)
7.9DKH at 08:59
7.7DKH at 09:30
7.7DKH at 10:00
7.7DKH at 13:30

I may be a sceptic at heart, but if that happened to me, I would question a few things;

1) Does my tank really consume 2.3 DKH a day?
2) Have I made up the alkalinity solution correctly?
3) What is this stuff?
4) How can I check my real alkalinity consumption?

Luckily number 4 is easy to check. I suggest you make up a bicarb additive and dose 1 DKH using a calculator and Randy's recipe. Then test as previous to see if it matches the Bolus dosing tests. I would not add 2.3 DKH in one shot.

 

[Pod_01]

Any delay would come from other ingredients. Such as metabolism of this peptide just like AFR metabolism.

Interesting, potentially turn bicarbonate into AFR type behaviour.

When I used AFR I liked it a lot as a user the Alk was almost flat, gradual decrease as consumption picked up etc… But I did not like my calcium and few other imbalances over time. So to split the Alk and Calcium would be nice.

So to wrap my head around this idea/hypothesis, the peptide binds the bicarbonate and bacteria or corals need to metabolize it to release it?

Just to clarify I been using FM Balling Light for total of 6+ years (on and off) so even though they may have secret something in there the system works. The description that FM provides is somewhat of entertaining read.

I observed the delay once I got my KH director and tested more often. I tried to adjust Alk and only portion showed up. So I added more and day later I had extra. I figured either it is the KH director, new math etc… but I didn’t dwell on it.
When I tested by hand once a day I did not pick up on this. Hand testing had its own challenges.

With the Bolus method being published I was like hmmmm….

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting, potentially turn bicarbonate into AFR type behaviour.

When I used AFR I liked it a lot as a user the Alk was almost flat, gradual decrease as consumption picked up etc… But I did not like my calcium and few other imbalances over time. So to split the Alk and Calcium would be nice.

So to wrap my head around this idea/hypothesis, the peptide binds the bicarbonate and bacteria or corals need to metabolize it to release it?

Just to clarify I been using FM Balling Light for total of 6+ years (on and off) so even though they may have secret something in there the system works. The description that FM provides is somewhat of entertaining read.

I observed the delay once I got my KH director and tested more often. I tried to adjust Alk and only portion showed up. So I added more and day later I had extra. I figured either it is the KH director, new math etc… but I didn’t dwell on it.
When I tested by hand once a day I did not pick up on this. Hand testing had its own challenges.

With the Bolus method being published I was like hmmmm….

No, nothing will bind bicarbonate in a way tht protects it. Such a thing reacts with it as an acid/base reaction, making something new.

Easiest to see with formic acid to make the formate in AFR or Acetic acid (vinegar) to make acetate as in Salifert all in one:

HCO2H (formic acid) + HCO3- (bicarbonate) --> HCO2- (formate) + H2O + CO2

HCO2- (formate) + 1/2O2 --> HCO3- (bicarbonate)

and

CH3CO2H (acetic acid) + HCO3- (bicarbonate) --> CH3CO2- (acetate) + H2O + CO2

CH3CO2- (acetate) + 2O2 --> HCO3- (bicarbonate) + CO2 + H2O

A peptide of, say, aspartic acid or glutamic acid would behave similarly. I doubt they use a pure single amino acid peptide, as opposed to some cheap protein product, but I have no idea.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

1. • medicine
     a single dose of a drug or other medicinal preparation given all at once
   
   
   

 

[Garf]

Hello all, new member from Wales, UK here after searching the net this week to see if Bolus had started making waves on the forums etc! I have an acro dominated Reefer 250 tank!

I was one of the very early adopters here in the UK (I started second week of February), I had ran a sodium hydroxide based 2 part widely used here in the UK for around a year prior and had struggled with massive precipitation, inability to maintain sufficient trace levels etc. I switched in December to Fauna Balling Light and noticed greater stability and better ICP results in terms of maintaining trace levels, however, the one 'downside' to this switch for me was the sudden drop in pH - I'd gone from a daily peak of ~8.4 to maxing out at roughly 8.1 if I was lucky using a co2 scrubber too!

After speaking with Doug from Frag Farm during an ICP consultation about my issues with suppressed pH he mentioned the Bolus method he'd been extensively working on and researching that was at that point being trialled by FM Reefers Club etc. I noted down the changes, removed my co2 scrubber, put on my big boy pants and pulled the trigger!

So, what have I noticed? Being mindful of Randy's comment around his priority for truth and accuracy to the highest degree I will share some screenshots and personal observations.

Bolus is dosed at 10:30am (red line), lights come on 11:00am with no ramp up and run full spectrum for 2 hours before the whites dial down and normal schedule resumes - I already ran an 11.5hr photoperiod - notice how I now start the day with a pH of around 8.1 too.

Here is a one week pre-Bolus pH graph using the very same FM Balling Light (apologies its a phone screenshot). I started Bolus on the 9th Feb - you can see I start to make gains around 3 days later on the very end bar.

6 weeks later (the earliest I can get data for as I switched from my Apex A3 pro to GHL Profilux - both were brand new with new and correctly calibrated probes, Apex just wasn't for me.

I'm no Reef Chemist, nor do I claim to be, but the alk curves mentioned in the HTU are also reflected on my own system - I ran my KHD to test 24 times in a day and here is the graph from that - note that I dose roughly 110ml so 2dKH into a 275ltr tank (I have much bigger sump than standard), the full 2dKH is never seen on a test which in my mind backs up what the HTU says around this matter :

As far as my reef tank benefits, what I have witnessed aligns closely with the HTU too, growth, colouration and polyp extension on all of my acros has increased - the corals don't lie! KH consumption is up from 50ml/day to 110ml and calcium has followed suit with an increase too.

Overall I'm happy with my switch to Bolus - for sure it has worked for me and based on the Fauna Facebook groups etc it seems to be the consensus with all those who have switched too. The best thing - I didn't need to buy anything new! I reprogrammed my lights and dosers and that was it.

Enjoy

I bet you have a pic of the tank?

 

[KrisReef]

Is doing a reef tank a medical procedure?

 

[Acroporaguy]

Why in the world would anyone want to use bolus dosing for a tank. What a ridiculous idea. I swear these reef companies always find a way to sell you some random garbage.

 

[Pod_01]

Why in the world would anyone want to use bolus dosing for a tank. What a ridiculous idea. I swear these reef companies always find a way to sell you some random garbage.

Per se they are not selling anything with Bolus.
They are telling their customers how to use their product so you get most out of it. They released HTU “How to Use.

What exactly makes it ridiculous? Just curious?

For example AFR can be dosed in one shot…

 

[Miami Reef]

What exactly makes it ridiculous?

Probably the false claims, scare tactics, and fear mongering like “old tank syndrome” and “this is the process of rectifying the damage that has been done to the buffer system.”

 

[twentyleagues]

Per se they are not selling anything with Bolus.
They are telling their customers how to use their product so you get most out of it. They released HTU “How to Use.

What exactly makes it ridiculous? Just curious?

For example AFR can be dosed in one shot…

I am not disagreeing. I am however confused I guess. Isnt it typically thought bad to increase alk by more than 1.4dkh at one time? I understand afr I use it and I dose the entire dose at one time, but that is "slow release" alk. Carb and bicarb should act immediately, Right? Its formate that has to be "digested".