SirRoadwolf
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I can't seem to find a Boron test kit. If this something only obtainable using lab equipment? If so what equipment do I need to get to monitor my boron?
Boron Testing?
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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Why are you worried about it?
There are some kits. I reviewed the Salifert and Seachem kits for articles years ago, but do not know if they are still available or how accurate they may currently be.
ICP certainly detects boron.
IMO, it is not a priority chemical for a reef.
There are some kits. I reviewed the Salifert and Seachem kits for articles years ago, but do not know if they are still available or how accurate they may currently be.
ICP certainly detects boron.
IMO, it is not a priority chemical for a reef.
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SirRoadwolf
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I was only worried about it because I bought some boron addative to help bring out the coral color. But it said I should keep an eye on the levels. 
Randy Holmes-Farley
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OK, yes, I'd be careful blindly dosing it.
here's part of my article on ICP testing my tank:
Boron (B; borate). The borate is about normal. I do not add it. It seemingly is not depleted in my aquarium.
here's part of my article on ICP testing my tank:
My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION
Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...
www.reefedition.com
Boron (B; borate). The borate is about normal. I do not add it. It seemingly is not depleted in my aquarium.
ReefPig
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*Below is just my observations, and not scientific fact*
I've recently conducted a lot of ICP tests two weeks apart, to try and determine the effect of various things.
Boron (and Bromide to a lesser degree) definitely appear to deplete with the use of activated carbon (granted this is at the upper limit of high quantity), and at lower levels appear to have an effect on Red/Pink, making them a little faded.
Using a balanced dosing system would supplement both correctly under normal usage, such as Triton, ATI, Red Sea etc, but these systems will not account for additional loss due to media etc, nor will they correct the levels if they are already low.
Doing an ICP and then correcting them occasionally I think is the best approach.
NSW levels are approximately 4.5mg/l for Boron and 62mg/l for Bromide.
I've had excellent results on Pinks (in particular) with slightly elevated levels of 7mg/l and 85mg/l respectfully.
I'm no marine biologist though, this is not a recommendation, just me experimenting.
I've recently conducted a lot of ICP tests two weeks apart, to try and determine the effect of various things.
Boron (and Bromide to a lesser degree) definitely appear to deplete with the use of activated carbon (granted this is at the upper limit of high quantity), and at lower levels appear to have an effect on Red/Pink, making them a little faded.
Using a balanced dosing system would supplement both correctly under normal usage, such as Triton, ATI, Red Sea etc, but these systems will not account for additional loss due to media etc, nor will they correct the levels if they are already low.
Doing an ICP and then correcting them occasionally I think is the best approach.
NSW levels are approximately 4.5mg/l for Boron and 62mg/l for Bromide.
I've had excellent results on Pinks (in particular) with slightly elevated levels of 7mg/l and 85mg/l respectfully.
I'm no marine biologist though, this is not a recommendation, just me experimenting.
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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IMO, that observation is not going to be generally true as I do not believe either borate or bromide will bind to GAC in seawater.
Unrelated to that opinion of mine (which is based on my understanding of what GAC is and what should bind to it) is the fact that I used GAC constantly, never added either of bromide or borate, and both were fine. Bromide was actually 2x normal.
Unrelated to that opinion of mine (which is based on my understanding of what GAC is and what should bind to it) is the fact that I used GAC constantly, never added either of bromide or borate, and both were fine. Bromide was actually 2x normal.
Dear Randy,
i agree that bromide is highly unlikely to be bound by GAC (which is also true for iodide), but boron is a different story.
In test we ran we observed pronounced depletion of total boron in seawater samples when exposed to GAC. I can not tell if that is the case for all brands of GAC since properties might vary.
Best regards,
Christoph
i agree that bromide is highly unlikely to be bound by GAC (which is also true for iodide), but boron is a different story.
In test we ran we observed pronounced depletion of total boron in seawater samples when exposed to GAC. I can not tell if that is the case for all brands of GAC since properties might vary.
Best regards,
Christoph
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Thanks, Christoph.
Was that artificial seawater, or aquarium water?
Borate will bind strongly to some carbohydrates, so maybe whether borate binds to GAC in aquaria depends on what is in the water that competes for sites and also binds the borate. And, as you mention, the type of carbon.
This paper shows some borate does bind to the hydroxyl groups on GAC from freshwater, but I'd guess it is less in seawater, and by the numbers in that paper (in the range of 2-5 mg/L boron) it would take more than 25 kilos of GAC to drop borate in my 300 gallon system system by half.
iwaponline.com
FWIW, it was ROX 0.8 that I was using during the time period of the ICP test that showed no depletion in my tank.
Was that artificial seawater, or aquarium water?
Borate will bind strongly to some carbohydrates, so maybe whether borate binds to GAC in aquaria depends on what is in the water that competes for sites and also binds the borate. And, as you mention, the type of carbon.
This paper shows some borate does bind to the hydroxyl groups on GAC from freshwater, but I'd guess it is less in seawater, and by the numbers in that paper (in the range of 2-5 mg/L boron) it would take more than 25 kilos of GAC to drop borate in my 300 gallon system system by half.
Boron removal from water by adsorption onto activated carbon prepared from palm bark: kinetic, isotherms, optimisation and breakthrough curves modeling | Water Science & Technology | IWA Publishing
Abstract. The occurrence of boron in water and its inefficient removal are the key issue in desalination and water treatment. Adsorption by fixed-bed colum
iwaponline.com
FWIW, it was ROX 0.8 that I was using during the time period of the ICP test that showed no depletion in my tank.
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SirRoadwolf
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I guess one question - maybe silly - that comes to mind from me, a novice, would be: Are there any organics that consume boron more than others (if at all?), and maybe that is why people get differing results?
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They do not consume it, but the primary borate binding organics likely to be present in a reef aquarium are carbohydrates.
Hello Randy,Thanks, Christoph.
Was that artificial seawater, or aquarium water?
Borate will bind strongly to some carbohydrates, so maybe whether borate binds to GAC in aquaria depends on what is in the water that competes for sites and also binds the borate. And, as you mention, the type of carbon.
This paper shows some borate does bind to the hydroxyl groups on GAC from freshwater, but I'd guess it is less in seawater, and by the numbers in that paper (in the range of 2-5 mg/L boron) it would take more than 25 kilos of GAC to drop borate in my 300 gallon system system by half.
Boron removal from water by adsorption onto activated carbon prepared from palm bark: kinetic, isotherms, optimisation and breakthrough curves modeling | Water Science & Technology | IWA Publishing
Abstract. The occurrence of boron in water and its inefficient removal are the key issue in desalination and water treatment. Adsorption by fixed-bed colum
FWIW, it was ROX 0.8 that I was using during the time period of the ICP test that showed no depletion in my tank.
my test series involved artificial seawater, so there should be only minimal DOC (like carbohydrates) present. Tests were conducted at a untypically high GAC to water ratio (~10 g/l) because i was interested in elements leaching from the carbon.
Best regards,
Christoph
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Ah, OK, thanks
