Brand VS DIY: calculations & price comparison

[Tmmste]

So, I wondered why the prices for bottles trace elements are outrageously expensive... I compared here "Dutch Synthetic Reefing" to DIY.. it is a pretty accurate price comparison... (chelating agents are missing for Mn & Fe) only potassium and strontium are oké compared to all others costs. And yes, manganese costs less than 1 cent. for the amount required to make a 1 liter stock solution. Ofcourse, there are companies even more expensive like Red Sea's formula A, B etcetera, but I just liked to give 1 company as an example. Sorry for the Dutch.. but I assume eveyone can figure out what it says.

blue: fiddling with this changes the green field
yellow: dosing guide of the manufacturer (or whatever I like)
green: should match the dosing amount on the label of the product by fiddling with the blue field

If I exclude K+ & Sr+, I can DIY 80 bottles for every brand bottle I would buy.. that is staggering in my honest opinion... The manufacturer responded that people need to get paid and that DIY would impact the entire branch....

However, I am of the opinion that I am being ripped off, and therefore DIY

 

[laverda]

I follow the DSR method, however I get my additives locally. I don't think your getting ripped of per say when you buy their products. You are paying more for the convience and specialized knowledge. If you have that knowledge and resources, there is no need to pay for it.
I have gained much of the knowledge over the years in the hobby. I used to buy 2 part early in the hobby. I can make many gallons of it now for what 2 small bottles would cost. I bought a 50 pound bag of kalk a few years back for less than 4 pounds would have cost me at the LFS. I had to have the knowledge to find it, more initial cash out lay, a big bulky bag of it I then had to store for years, but I saved myself hundreds of dollars over the years on that bag alone. I recently bought 2 pallets of Calcium Chloride for a really good price. But it has been a pain to move around and store it while selling some to local hobbyists. It is way more then I will ever use. Most would prefer to pay at least 20 times as much and buy it already mixed in a 16oz bottle at the LFS. I still buy some of the elements pre mixed in bottles, as it is not worth the cost for the small quanity(5-10ml daily) I use and I don't have that knowledge yet. I also bought up some iodine and stontium from a LFS that closed for almost nothing. I am interested in learning what you use and may do the same in the future. I need to switch to faragon tablets for iron soon.

 

[Tmmste]

I follow the DSR method, however I get my additives locally. I don't think your getting ripped of per say when you buy their products. You are paying more for the convience and specialized knowledge. If you have that knowledge and resources, there is no need to pay for it.
I have gained much of the knowledge over the years in the hobby. I used to buy 2 part early in the hobby. I can make many gallons of it now for what 2 small bottles would cost. I bought a 50 pound bag of kalk a few years back for less than 4 pounds would have cost me at the LFS. I had to have the knowledge to find it, more initial cash out lay, a big bulky bag of it I then had to store for years, but I saved myself hundreds of dollars over the years on that bag alone. I recently bought 2 pallets of Calcium Chloride for a really good price. But it has been a pain to move around and store it while selling some to local hobbyists. It is way more then I will ever use. Most would prefer to pay at least 20 times as much and buy it already mixed in a 16oz bottle at the LFS. I still buy some of the elements pre mixed in bottles, as it is not worth the cost for the small quanity(5-10ml daily) I use and I don't have that knowledge yet. I also bought up some iodine and stontium from a LFS that closed for almost nothing. I am interested in learning what you use and may do the same in the future. I need to switch to faragon tablets for iron soon.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, knowledge is key though, else you will mess up the calculations (made ample of calculating mistakes), which will cost much more than the elements. I use a 2-part based on Randy Holmes, Jim Welsh and Jimmy54, which is adaptable to my tank parameters and balanced in terms of Na:CI:SO4. If you carefully look at a single element calculated you should be able to replicate it in excel. I prefer to do as little as possible and therefore will only add x gr of Sr/K/Ca/Mg together with my top off water.. or I/B/kH .. to correct values in 1 go.. and tweak the 2-part until values remain the same. It looks like this. I am also one of those refers who could not afford the hobby if I wouldn't DIY... so that was an easy choice (else I would still use calcium hydroxide with vinegar... à la Randy Holmes-Farley)

 

[Tmmste]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I wondered what you think of the small calculator. Would it be something interesting to add for those who would like to compose their own stock solutions? I feel it is relatively simple to understand.

 

[laverda]

I have to admit what your doing is a bit over my head. I should have paid more attention in chemistry class. Back then it had no relevance to me. I don’t learn well listening to a teacher lecturing.
Let me see if I am understanding correctly. Instead of Calcium Chloride and carbonate or bicarbonate, which is high in Chloride, you are making a two part that balances out the Chlorides and includes iodine and potassium in part 1. Part 2 includes Ca, Mag, strontium & potassium. Are you adding thes with your top off water or separately? And you are adding B, I & OH(?) or kH(?) separately. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I would still have a tank, although it would be a much smaller on if not for DIY additives. I would love a copy of your spread sheet. Using it may help me understand things better.

 

[Tmmste]

I have to admit what your doing is a bit over my head. I should have paid more attention in chemistry class. Back then it had no relevance to me. I don’t learn well listening to a teacher lecturing.
Let me see if I am understanding correctly. Instead of Calcium Chloride and carbonate or bicarbonate, which is high in Chloride, you are making a two part that balances out the Chlorides and includes iodine and potassium in part 1. Part 2 includes Ca, Mag, strontium & potassium. Are you adding thes with your top off water or separately? And you are adding B, I & OH(?) or kH(?) separately. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I would still have a tank, although it would be a much smaller on if not for DIY additives. I would love a copy of your spread sheet. Using it may help me understand things better.

I will have to tweak it a bit to make it user-friendly. But basically yes, I dose equal amounts of part I and II, throughout the day... for that I use 2 big jugs. For kH I use lye (caustic soda), see articles of Randy Holmes (a great place to start to understand chemistry). Most calculations are based on this:

 

[laverda]

I picked up some lye already based on Randy’s latest 2 part recommendation. I have not used it yet. What size tank are you dosing?