Breaking News. COR

[Newb73]

Only differentiator for Neptune are controllability and sensors.

So, what monitoring and controller options will thing have? Built in flow monitoring would be super cool.

I got all that by controlling my reef octopus Varios 6 pumps off the vdm port and installing flow meters on both my return lines.

The vectra doesnt even belong in the conversation...it is not apex ready.

The Cor 15 brings at least 1 advantage, it runs off a 1link and saves an outlet (good for those who already own a 1 link).

I wouldn't buy a TMC, it's too new to market. The first gen reef octopus pumps were garbage and based off of jaebo/wavelines. Mine died at 11 months as did many peoples. The second gen RODC pumps proved good....mines 3 years running no issues. Varios are 3rd gen...should be good to go.

I suspect the cor series will have some nifty pre-set control schemes and protections/notifications built right that Jaebo/Varios doesn't have however.

If Neptune really wants to knock it out of the park...they should make it a 5 yr warranty on the block.

 

[PedroYoung]

I got all that by controlling my reef octopus Varios 6 pumps off the vdm port and installing flow meters on both my return lines.

The vectra doesnt even belong in the conversation...it is not apex ready.

The Cor 15 brings at least 1 advantage, it runs off a 1link and saves an outlet (good for those who already own a 1 link).

I wouldn't buy a TMC, it's too new to market. The first gen reef octopus pumps were garbage and based off of jaebo/wavelines. Mine died at 11 months as did many peoples. The second gen RODC pumps proved good....mines 3 years running no issues. Varios are 3rd gen...should be good to go.

I suspect the cor series will have some nifty pre-set control schemes and protections/notifications built right that Jaebo/Varios doesn't have however.

If Neptune really wants to knock it out of the park...they should make it a 5 yr warranty on the block.

Got 10 yr warranty on my Abyzz

 

[ca1ore]

So, what monitoring and controller options will thing have? Built in flow monitoring would be super cool.

As I understand it, the COR will have diagnostic data on the Apex dashboard much like the WAV does (whether that's useful or not is a different discussion). Flow monitoring still requires the use of a separate flow sensor, so no advantage over a third party pump. This is an obvious Vectra competitor; will be interesting to see if it proves more reliable or not.

 

[markstubb]

@Newb73 and I share the same thought process. I have the exact same setup, just an additional Varios for my skimmer. Controlling then with the VDM is super easy and the flow sensors tell me what I need to know.

 

[Newb73]

As I understand it, the COR will have diagnostic data on the Apex dashboard much like the WAV does (whether that's useful or not is a different discussion). Flow monitoring still requires the use of a separate flow sensor, so no advantage over a third party pump. This is an obvious Vectra competitor; will be interesting to see if it proves more reliable or not.

To be honest my wav sensors always read ok and never vary on temperature either.

I had one go dead and it still read ok and the same temp even after it died.

It does make one wander if those sensors work as advertised.

I would have expected it to tell me it was not running via an error message as that is what was marketed amd what i paid for.

My Vortech at least tells me when it disconnects or stalls.

 

[Zero Nitrates]

Running off 1link is big for me. My lights alone have 7 plugs. Having one less plug would be great.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Gotta say-off topic...love your avatar! [emoji23] halothane ...awesome [emoji23]

Same question here. I’m looking to buy my first return pump and my options are between the TMC reef pump, Vectra return pumps and lastly the COR.

Is there any obvious differences or one that is clearly above the rest in performance or features etc?

That’s the big thing I’ve been trying to figure out as well. The best descriptions of the CORs features I’ve seen are here and here. The COR-20 comes with a controller box and power supply and can be run standalone. From Terence’s post, the COR-15 comes with a control box, but it’s still not clear to me if it comes with a power supply, or if it can be run standalone or not. I’ve seen reports both ways, but nothing official from Neptune (what I’ve seen from Neptune would indicate not, but it’s not clear, so I wouldn’t take that as certain by any means.)

From what I can tell, the advantages a COR would have over a separate DC pump like the Varios are:

• Pricing: $325 for the COR-20 and $275 for the COR-15
• Fewer cables - A separate DC pump needs a power supply, the control box and a control wire from the 0-10v output on the Apex. The COR can eliminate at least one of those, as the 1link cable is a combined power/data cable. Based on @Terence’s post, it appears the COR15 will eliminate the power brick (assuming you’re not already using too much power with existing 1link devices)
• Flow against pressure - I have not seen any figures for flow vs head pressure. According to Neptune, the COR 20 will have a zero-head flow of 2000 and the COR-15 will have a zero-head flow of 1500. They have also stated that the COR-15 will flow 1000 GPH at 6 feet of head pressure. We’ll probalby have to wait until the release date to get the official information from Neptune.
• The COR will informationabout pump temperature that the Varios doesn’t.
• Power monitoring - The it appears that the COR allows current/power monitoring. If you have an Apex Classic this will give you a feature not available with other pumps. If you have an Apex 2016 then you can do this with any pump plugged into your EB832. One potential difference is whether the power information is total power or just power to the pump. This isn’t a huge difference, depending on the efficiency of the power supply, but if you’re worried about how much heat the pump is adding to your system, eliminating the energy used by the power supply gives you a better estimate.
• According to one of the posts, the apex software will have the ability to adjust for an over power/current condition by dropping the pump speed rather than shutting it off completely. I’m not fasile enough with Apex programming to know if you could do this with other pumps or not.
• Flow monitoring - I’ve seen some reports about this, but nothing definitive. If the pump has built in flow monitoring, then it will include something that can be done externally with other pumps but at a non-insignificant cost. Just looking at images of the pumps, I don’t see where they would have placed a flow sensor, but that’s just guessing from the pictures.
• Feed mode button - the button on the control box will automatically activate a feed mode. You can do this via the apex control, fusion or a button and a break out box, but it’s not as slick.
• Reliability - I haven’t heard any reports of problems with the COR, but at this point you likely wouldn’t. Being new, the relisabiltiy will be an unknown until significant units have been in service for a while.
• Availability - Neptune announced the COR 2 years ago and keeps promising but has been silent on an actual release date. Insiders have received units for beta testing, so the release date is presumably closer, but given the history of the CORs development it’s still anybody’s guess.
• Color coordination - For those who want their system to be color coordinated, the COR is the only pump available in orange and grey. If you don’t like orange and grey then you probably won’t like the looks of the COR!

I’ve tried to make all this as accurate as I can. If there are mistakes, hopefully @Terence or other people with more direct knowledge can chime in and correct them.

Reading through all this, the COR looks like it will be a solid offering at a reasonable price with some features that may be nice to have, several unknowns, but not that much that can’t be implemented on other pumps with an Apex 2016. I have a Varios 6 that’s working perfectly, so I’d be hard pressed to justify spending money on a COR. If you need a pump now and were hoping to get a COR, there’s probably not that much that you’ll miss out on by getting a good DC controllable pump. If you can wait, you have to be the judge as to whether these features are worth the wait for you or not. I would think the COR will be available within a year, but until Neptune gives us a date, it’s anybody’s guess.

 

[pastelball]

The cor-15 doesn't come with a power supply. You need a 1link or the new eb832.

 

[roberthu526]

Man this hobby is getting crazier everyday. Think about it, $300 for a fish tank Pump is deemed a reasonable price! It’s scary how far we have gone through!

 

[Killamanjaro]

@Sleepydoc thanks for posting up that info!

 

[Kyl]

If Neptune really wants to knock it out of the park...they should make it a 5 yr warranty on the block.

This is something that's really always irked me the wrong way. You spend top dollar for hardware, and get a piddly one year warranty that says all you need to know about the vendors own expectations of their hardware. Not singling Neptune out, it's unfortunately across almost all vendors in this hobby, and all industries. Very few actually stand behind their products fully for longer than that these days.

I should have expanded, that I feel this way when I hear marketing material or associated social media exposure that claims such and such a product is so much better quality than the "cheap China junk", yet the money is not where the mouth is. I run into this all the time in my employment industry, though we have enough industry clout to force warranty honouring if things go south after the much lauded 1 year warranty is up.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Totally agree - especially with the DC pumps. Of course, the very reason we want the warranty is the same reason they don’t provide a longer one. The controllers for DC pumps are necessarily more complex, and engineering design compromises that cause excess heat buildup can take months to years to manifest. If they give a 5 year warranty and find out that their design is flawed 2 years into it, they’re on the hook for a lot of controllers. So instead they leave us on the hook for the controller.

I think what’s most frustrating is that often times, the difference between an adequate design and a solid, robust design that will last is a matter of a few bucks in parts. As a consumer, I’d rather pay the couple dollars. As a practice, most manufacturers price their product at a price point. If they can trim $2 off the manufacturing costs, they net $2 per unit over thousands of units.

Like you said, this is an industry-wide issue, not a Neptune issue. I expect Neptune will offer a 1 or 2 year warranty, which is what most pumps offer. 5 year warranty would be awesome, but I honestly wouldn’t blame them if they didn’t. As a company, why would they open themselves up to that much more potential liability for relatively little gain?

 

[PedroYoung]

Totally agree - especially with the DC pumps. Of course, the very reason we want the warranty is the same reason they don’t provide a longer one. The controllers for DC pumps are necessarily more complex, and engineering design compromises that cause excess heat buildup can take months to years to manifest. If they give a 5 year warranty and find out that their design is flawed 2 years into it, they’re on the hook for a lot of controllers. So instead they leave us on the hook for the controller.

I think what’s most frustrating is that often times, the difference between an adequate design and a solid, robust design that will last is a matter of a few bucks in parts. As a consumer, I’d rather pay the couple dollars. As a practice, most manufacturers price their product at a price point. If they can trim $2 off the manufacturing costs, they net $2 per unit over thousands of units.

Like you said, this is an industry-wide issue, not a Neptune issue. I expect Neptune will offer a 1 or 2 year warranty, which is what most pumps offer. 5 year warranty would be awesome, but I honestly wouldn’t blame them if they didn’t. As a company, why would they open themselves up to that much more potential liability for relatively little gain?

I agree with everything you're saying. If you want the big warranty you have to pay for it. I decided I did and went with the Abyzz A200, comes with 10 yr comprehensive warranty. Now the problem is, I can't afford a spare so if it does go out I'm going to be scrambling.

 

[Will Milberger]

It's a pump.

 

[pelphrey]

For reference Neptune recommends NOT plugging the COR20 power into the power bar. You should supply power to it else where. The only real scenario of having the COR plugged into your energy bar is to track amp values or power logging. If you do plug it into your energy bar you will want that outlet set to ON.

 

[Sleepydoc]

I agree with everything you're saying. If you want the big warranty you have to pay for it. I decided I did and went with the Abyzz A200, comes with 10 yr comprehensive warranty. Now the problem is, I can't afford a spare so if it does go out I'm going to be scrambling.

Nice warranty - Of course, for the price, I’d expect a good warranty. Everything I’ve heard about the Abyzz and Red Dragon pumps has been top notch. Hopefully you don’t need a spare, but nothing says your backup pump has to be top of the line. A cheap jaebao would be enough to get you through until a replacement came.

For reference Neptune recommends NOT plugging the COR20 power into the power bar. You should supply power to it else where. The only real scenario of having the COR plugged into your energy bar is to track amp values or power logging. If you do plug it into your energy bar you will want that outlet set to ON.

Curious - I wonder why? I’m guessing that they figure it can be completly controller via the aquabus/1link connections so plugging it into the power bar would neeedlesly take an outlet and have the possibility of it getting shut off if there were a major issue with the power bar or Apex, whereas having it plugged in separately would allow it to continue functioning independently even if the connection to the Apex was lost. If the dashboard reporting gives power at the pump instead of total power, they’re probalby also hoping to avoid people asking why the power reading off the EB832 is different from the COR dashboard display.

 

[pelphrey]

You are correct. To prevent someone from shutting the outlet OFF for any reason. And with limited outlets it makes sense to me. I have the COR20 which is a standalone pump, it will work with or without the apex. I don't have mine plugged into the EB8, if my power bar fails the pump will continue to work.

Also adding this line of code to your pump If FeedA 010 Then 1 allows you do basically shut the pump down without shutting it down. If that makes sense. The pump will keep water in the plumbing and not back siphon into the sump. It's a minor detail but I like it.

 

[Newb73]

You are correct. To prevent someone from shutting the outlet OFF for any reason. And with limited outlets it makes sense to me. I have the COR20 which is a standalone pump, it will work with or without the apex. I don't have mine plugged into the EB8, if my power bar fails the pump will continue to work.

Also adding this line of code to your pump If FeedA 010 Then 1 allows you do basically shut the pump down without shutting it down. If that makes sense. The pump will keep water in the plumbing and not back siphon into the sump. It's a minor detail but I like it.

Do you think i can do that with a varios by activating a virtual outlet at say 15%

 

[Sleepydoc]

Do you think i can do that with a varios by activating a virtual outlet at say 15%

Yes - the way I did mine was by first playing around to figure out what speed was just enough to keep the water from flowing backwards, 14% in my case. Then I created a profile called ‘static’ that set the variable outlet at 14% and then added a line “If FeedA 000 then Static” to the variable outlet that controls the pump. (There may be a more elegant way to do it, but that’s how I did it.)

It sounds like the COR does something similar; I’m sure you have to calibrate what ‘zero flow’ and ‘full flow’ are, and it looks like the fusion interface might be a bit slicker, but it ends up being the same thing.

 

[Newb73]

One nice thing about these DC pumps is the soft start where feed cycles supppsedly do not wear on the pumps.