Breaking news on Apex

[gcarroll]

My point is this: A sub $200 device is a gateway to a customer base that IS NOT going to spend $400 or more on a controller that they really don't understand, and don't see a need for. I just can't see where extending your market into the realm of budget sensitive reefers could possibly be a drain on your R&D budget.

So how'd that work out for Digital Aquatics? Gateway to where?

 

[Terence]

A sub-$200 controller with all the hardware you list off would absolutely sell very well. No doubt. Even so, the overall saltwater aquarium market is much smaller than most everyone really understands. Even with a huge market penetration, a device with all you list, at this price point, after giving up a good % to the channel as well (often a forgotten piece of the puzzle), could not have enough in it to be viable at that overall volume. That is where my 100x number came in to play. Just look at the Nest product for comparison, they have a much large margin and there is less involved, hardware-wise, in making one of those - yet they sell for $300.

There is a reason DA is no longer making a $200 controller - or anything for that matter - and also did not innovate much at all over the last six years while we did - and to the benefit of all our customers - even those we had not received a dime from since 2009

 

[mcjca]

A sub-$200 controller with all the hardware you list off would absolutely sell very well. No doubt. Even so, the overall saltwater aquarium market is much smaller than most everyone really understands. Even with a huge market penetration, a device with all you list, at this price point, after giving up a good % to the channel as well (often a forgotten piece of the puzzle), could not have enough in it to be viable at that overall volume. That is where my 100x number came in to play. Just look at the Nest product for comparison, they have a much large margin and there is less involved, hardware-wise, in making one of those - yet they sell for $300.

There is a reason DA is no longer making a $200 controller - or anything for that matter - and also did not innovate much at all over the last six years while we did - and to the benefit of all our customers - even those we had not received a dime from since 2009

Your business model is appreciated. I am starting a new saltwater tank and have done extensive research in the controller market. Reading your responses and seeing the positive feedback about Neptune's support and innovation is comforting knowing the investment I will be making. I'd much rather pay premium prices for premium product, support, innovation, and longevity.

 

[RamsReef]

So how'd that work out for Digital Aquatics? Gateway to where?

Headshot

 

[Mark Gray]

Thanks for the feedback. Always welcome. And we do listen. That is why we actually made the EL system available - after hearing from many customers that they wanted a lower cost system - but didn't want to sacrifice things like the EB832.

Often overlooked by many is that there is much more than just the cost of the hardware that goes into a product like ours. Similar to the Apple way, we have been innovating and updating what we do for 20+ years now - and our returns come in the way of hardware sales, not software or services. Because of this, many Apex users over the years have enjoyed incredible steps forward in the capabilities of their Apex without a single additional cost to them - for instance, some paid $500 in 2011 long before Apex Fusion was a sparkle in our eyes - and they have enjoyed all these advances to date. And this continues today. Just yesterday an update to Apex Fusion was pushed out that (among other things) enabled current late-model Apex customers the ability to control more 3rd party devices with no extra cost (AI LED). Additionally we announced that we are currently reviewing both Alexa and Android support in our NSI team and both of these will be available for Apex Classic and Apex Jr. users.

To bring something to market like you suggest, at the sub $200 price point, means that either one (or more) of a few things have to happen - either you must sell about 100x more than the current aquarium market allows, or your R&D budget and innovation must suffer, or your quality must suffer. And you do not have to take my word for it - DA, and others, have either not innovated much at all, or have died altogether by not pricing their products accordingly.

As I said, it is not always clear to the consumer how much cost there is involved in innovating, supporting, and the actual cloud infrastructure (and associated maintenance) required to provide what we do - and for tens of thousands of active customers. We get that and that's why I try and stay engaged in forums like this to help communicate what it is that we do.

Hi Terrence I have a quick question will the Apex 2016 be Alexa comparable?

 

[Terence]

Yes. All Apex will be Alexa compatible.

 

[Raptor72]

In case it wasn’t mentioned before, the EL doesn’t include a display, so that’s another $100 if you want one.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

In case it wasn’t mentioned before, the EL doesn’t include a display, so that’s another $100 if you want one.

Honestly, the display is useless which is why they are phasing it out. It’s a holdover from the days before we all carried around portable displays in our pockets (cell phone).

 

[vetteguy53081]

In case it wasn’t mentioned before, the EL doesn’t include a display, so that’s another $100 if you want one.

Same applies to Apex 2016 full system

 

[IntenseImage]

So this happened

 

[Raptor72]

That was fast

 

[IntenseImage]

LFS is blocks away and we happened to stop in

 

[Breadman03]

Honestly, the display is useless which is why they are phasing it out. It’s a holdover from the days before we all carried around portable displays in our pockets (cell phone).

The display is the only way I can calibrate my DOS on my Classic. Tech Support couldn't get it to work any other way. Meh. I didn't recalibrate for like 2 years and the heads were all still spot on.

LFS is blocks away and we happened to stop in

"Happened" lol I'm too far away for that excuse

 

[mcjca]

I get my EL on Friday. I ordered it along with the VDM module to get back the 0-10v ports. Still saved 200 as I don’t care to monitor salinity and orp through Apex. The 0-10v ports I did.

 

[Cherub]

So this happened

You'll have to let us know how it goes

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes. All Apex will be Alexa compatible.

Terrence, when and how will Apex address the issues with Top and salinity probe(a known complaint with owners) especially those realizing there is a $300 savings on a unit now without them?

 

[Forsaken77]

I think adding novelty features, like Alexa support, is not something most users will use for this type of application.

Personally, I don't like those devices listening to what's going on at all times in my house. Yea, it only responds to key words, but it's always listening. I shut off the "OK Google" voice features on my phone also.

Removing the 0-10v ports was a bigger issue because that's what most 3rd party hardware operates on for any controllability... return pumps, lights, skimmers... correct?

Maybe to bring down hardware costs Neptune could implement a subscription service for Fusion and the app. Kind of how Microsoft and Sony do for their game consoles to operate online.

So reduce the price of hardware but charge $50/year for Fusion/app support. That covers your R&D for all of the software enhancements and can bring the price back down to earth without removing features that most people would use.

 

[Terence]

Terrence, when and how will Apex address the issues with Top and salinity probe(a known complaint with owners) especially those realizing there is a $300 savings on a unit now without them?

What issues? The salinity probe can be tricky for many to use due to micro bubble issues or external interference but I can personally show you many on my apex list how have consistent results. Also, many who think they have an issue are of the type that are seeing 34.2 (somehow) in a refractometer when the Apex says 32.8. This type is a non issue and purely a misunderstanding from the customer point of view.

I do not know what “Top” is so cannot comment on that.

Also, the Apex has variable speed ports as well where the EL does not.

The whole point of having multiple levels of products is so people can make the choice on what’s most important to them.

 

[Terence]

I think adding novelty features, like Alexa support, is not something most users will use for this type of application.

Personally, I don't like those devices listening to what's going on at all times in my house. Yea, it only responds to key words, but it's always listening. I shut off the "OK Google" voice features on my phone also.

Removing the 0-10v ports was a bigger issue because that's what most 3rd party hardware operates on for any controllability... return pumps, lights, skimmers... correct?

Maybe to bring down hardware costs Neptune could implement a subscription service for Fusion and the app. Kind of how Microsoft and Sony do for their game consoles to operate online.

So reduce the price of hardware but charge $50/year for Fusion/app support. That covers your R&D for all of the software enhancements and can bring the price back down to earth without removing features that most people would use.

The thing is, if you want those ports but don’t want to spend more, you can get them with the VDM module and the EL for $600 and still save $200.

I can’t wait to hear the responses to your subscription idea.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What issues? The salinity probe can be tricky for many to use due to micro bubble issues or external interference but I can personally show you many on my apex list how have consistent results. Also, many who think they have an issue are of the type that are seeing 34.2 (somehow) in a refractometer when the Apex says 32.8. This type is a non issue and purely a misunderstanding from the customer point of view.
Making the choice is what I like making the Apex versatile. Ive read the various comments with the EL units and most need to factor the stability of Neptune as a company. Like Apple, Neptune introduces new technology annually.

My darn word-correct, not Top. It was meant to be ORP.
I UNLIKE many can say I am happy with my 2016 unit and can stress the ease of setup and access to my unit. Adding a standard EB8 was too easy and other than my lighting. It's one of the few pieces of equipment I have that I trust.
My salinity Does match my pinpoint readings. I was speaking if the many complaints that I have read of.