Brown lesion ID

[ReefinginOntario]

I’m hoping someone can help me ID and suggest treatment options on something that popped up a few days ago on my lyretail anthias just below his mouth. It started out as white and has now turned brown.

Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

Is the fish still feeding?
Is it breathing normally?

Any ideas if the fish could have been injured somehow? Not always, but often, an injury starts off flesh or white colored, and then, as it starts to heal, you see darker tissue form.

Jay Hemdal

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Thanks for your reply Jay.

Yes he is continuing to eat and appears to be breathing normally. It’s possible that may have injured himself on the rocks as he jams himself in some crevices at night.

I stocked up on various meds/antibiotics some time ago so would something like Kanaplex or something else help with the healing?

Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for your reply Jay.

Yes he is continuing to eat and appears to be breathing normally. It’s possible that may have injured himself on the rocks as he jams himself in some crevices at night.

I stocked up on various meds/antibiotics some time ago so would something like Kanaplex or something else help with the healing?

Thanks!

Secondary bacterial infection would be the issue to worry about here. Symptoms of that would include the lesion getting larger, redder in color and then changes in the fish's feeding and breathing. The trouble is, there really isn't an effective antibiotic you can add to a display tank. Moving the fish to a treatment tank and dosing with an antibiotic is what you would need to do, but that in itself has some risk. Kanaplex, Neoplex or Furan-2 would be possible choices of medications for this.
There is a slight chance that this is fungal, but I don't think so, since it came on suddenly, it is more likely an injury.

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Thanks again Jay. Would mixing kanaplex/fusion with some frozen mysis do the trick in lieu of quarantine treatment?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks again Jay. Would mixing kanaplex/fusion with some frozen mysis do the trick in lieu of quarantine treatment?

Not really, there is almost no chance that the dosage would be correct. The oral dose for kanamycin is 50 mg per kg of fish mass fed daily. There is probably a plus of minus 50% margin of error.

Here is an article I posted last year about this issue:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Ok thanks Jay. I guess I’ll just have to monitor him to make sure it doesn’t get worse. In the mean time he’s still gorging on food and is very active.

I appreciate all your help!

 

[ReefinginOntario]

The condition appears to have worsened with the patch getting a little larger and some tissue loss on the side of his mouth. I’m assuming it’s mouth fungus which I understand to be bacterial. i guess the lesion he had I assume from squeezing into a rock crevice led to the infection.

I was able to catch him very easily in a box trap and have him in quarantine with furan 2. Hopefully that does the trick and grows back the tissue that was lost.

Any other recommendations on what meds I can safely mix to help cure the guy as I also have metroplex, kanaplex and general cure on hand?

Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The condition appears to have worsened with the patch getting a little larger and some tissue loss on the side of his mouth. I’m assuming it’s mouth fungus which I understand to be bacterial. i guess the lesion he had I assume from squeezing into a rock crevice led to the infection.

I was able to catch him very easily in a box trap and have him in quarantine with furan 2. Hopefully that does the trick and grows back the tissue that was lost.

Any other recommendations on what meds I can safely mix to help cure the guy as I also have metroplex, kanaplex and general cure on hand?

Thanks.

Now that it is in a quarantine tank, can you get a clearer picture? Furan-2 is a pretty decent broad spectrum antibiotic.....

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Thanks Jay. I just added the second dose of the first round today.

Here's the pic;

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Jay. I just added the second dose of the first round today.

Here's the pic;

Oh crud. It looks like the fish's lower jaw has been eaten away. If so, there is no way to fix that.

See the gray color? That wasn't as evident to me in the first photo. This could be a rare fungal disease that I've run into a few times before. Antibiotics won't cure that. I've managed to treat it with a 75 ppm formalin dip very day, but that was to treat a spot on a fish's back, not its mouth like that....

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Well that sucks. Does that mean he could be on his way to the reef in the sky?

Could this have been caused by an opportunistic strain preceded by an injury?

Thanks.

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Sorry, I should also mention that the other side of his mouth looks relatively "normal" so it's not eaten away like the side imaged.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Well that sucks. Does that mean he could be on his way to the reef in the sky?

Could this have been caused by an opportunistic strain preceded by an injury?

Thanks.

The fish's right side does look better, but on the left side, once bone has been involved, it won't regrow....sorry.

The fish is still feeding?

Formalin would still be the only treatment I can think of, but you can't get that in Canada. What about Ruvby Reef Rally? Can you get that? You could try using that as a 3 hour dip, at one teaspoon per gallon, in a bucket with air and a heater.

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Unfortunately we don’t have easy access to that stuff here. I was able to get the other antibiotics in the US pre-COVID. So I’m stuck with what I have (general cure, furan 2, prazipro, metroplex, kanaplex and focus). I did the third dose of furan last night. I haven’t noticed much of a change. Would a combination possibly help in lieu of the other ones you mentioned?

Fortunately he’s still eating.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Unfortunately we don’t have easy access to that stuff here. I was able to get the other antibiotics in the US pre-COVID. So I’m stuck with what I have (general cure, furan 2, prazipro, metroplex, kanaplex and focus). I did the third dose of furan last night. I haven’t noticed much of a change. Would a combination possibly help in lieu of the other ones you mentioned?

Fortunately he’s still eating.

The other meds you have are more for protozoan or metazoan diseases, not bacterial or fungal. The kanaplex is of course an antibiotic, but it is pretty redundant to the activity of the furan 2.

jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Thanks Jay.

I was able to get my hands on some rally. Can I mix that in the QT with the antibiotics?

Also do you think this is a gram positive or negative infection?

Thanks again.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Jay.

I was able to get my hands on some rally. Can I mix that in the QT with the antibiotics?

Also do you think this is a gram positive or negative infection?

Thanks again.

I've never mixed Rally with antibiotics, so I don't know.

Personally, I think this is a fungal infection, but if it isn't, the next most likely diagnosis would be gram negative bacteria.

Jay

 

[ReefinginOntario]

Oh crud. It looks like the fish's lower jaw has been eaten away. If so, there is no way to fix that.

See the gray color? That wasn't as evident to me in the first photo. This could be a rare fungal disease that I've run into a few times before. Antibiotics won't cure that. I've managed to treat it with a 75 ppm formalin dip very day, but that was to treat a spot on a fish's back, not its mouth like that....

Jay

So I was crafty and able to get my hands on some 37% formaldehyde. Could you please provide me with some additional detail about preparing the bath? Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So I was crafty and able to get my hands on some 37% formaldehyde. Could you please provide me with some additional detail about preparing the bath? Thanks so much for your help!

I've treated fungal issues with 75 ppm formalin dips for 45 minutes daily. The way it works is this:

ppm * gallons / 266 = ml of formalin

So - 75 ppm times dip volume (lets say 2 gallons) divided by 266 = 0.56 ml of formalin. You'll need a pipette or tuberculin syringe to measure that. Then, add that to 2 gallons of tank water, add good aeration and then a few minutes later, add the fish for 30 minutes. Return the fish to the tank and dispose of the dip water. Repeat daily for 3 to 5 days. Keep this away from children and handle the formalin very carefully - I use goggles and gloves.

Jay