Brown sand

Pete1433

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Hi,
My tank is in its 2nd year and I have suddenly started to struggle with a brown dust that covers the gravel and glass. I have reduced the lighting as I realise there is more daylight now with summer coming, but it's made no difference. My parameters are all okay. This algae is returning every day, but it is not there in the mornings so it is developing only during daylight hours. Can anyone suggest a fix please?
 
Do you regularly siphon your sand as part of your water changes?
No, I don't disturb it, I was told it should never be disturbed, however I do swish the water around above it daily now to remove the brown dust
 
Hi Pete

We really need some pictures as it could be many things, good or bad if you could upload some
 
Thank you for your assistance here is a photo of the tank tonight, bear in mind that this if in one day as it was swirled up last night and clean this morning?
FB_IMG_1556389926427.jpg
 
I have around 6 cerith snails, several turbos, an emerald crab, a hermit crab, a tuxedo urchin and a pink spotted goby, today, on advice, I bought another goby, a blue cheeked one.
 
No, I don't disturb it, I was told it should never be disturbed, however I do swish the water around above it daily now to remove the brown dust
Well, there is your problem. The sand has become a nutrient sink and is likely inundated with excessive nutrients. Now you have a whole new challenge ahead. Since you have never disturbed your sand bed there are likely toxic pockets, that disturbing at this point, might cause all sorts of issues. I would pick a small section, perhaps 6"x6", and siphon that, expanding a section one at a time, to include the section(s) you did the previous week, doing once-a-week water changes until you are able to clean the whole sand bed at every water change. Then revert to your regular water change schedule once you are able to clean the whole sand bed with each water change. Someone gave you bad advice IMHO.
 
Well, there is your problem. The sand has become a nutrient sink and is likely inundated with excessive nutrients. Now you have a whole new challenge ahead. Since you have never disturbed your sand bed there are likely toxic pockets, that disturbing at this point, might cause all sorts of issues. I would pick a small section, perhaps 6"x6", and siphon that, expanding a section one at a time, to include the section(s) you did the previous week, doing once-a-week water changes until you are able to clean the whole sand bed at every water change. Then revert to your regular water change schedule once you are able to clean the whole sand bed with each water change. Someone gave you bad advice IMHO.
Unfortunately there is so much advice going around that it's hard to know who to believe?
The advice I got was from one of the owners at Jasons aquatics in Cornwall. He had been instrumental in assisting me from the start and when I mentioned that I vacuumed the gravel every week he said that I was lucky that I hadn't wiped the tank out. He said never to touch it again, and I haven't!l
 
Honestly I never vacuum my sand. I rely on heavy flow in my display to keep solids suspended
 
Hey and hi,

Nobody asked, where are you parameters at? Can’t see diatoms at your stage. More, and I hate saying this, Dino. I have same. Goes away at night, comes back in daylight.

As far as vacuuming p-dub was correct. My tank is 10 years old. I always vacuumed what I could get to. You are taking out uneaten food and wate by doing it. If you don’t then there is no sense running a skimmer since you are leaving DoC in the gravel.

I just redid my substrate after 10 years. Here is what the gravel behind the rock I could not get to vacuum looks like.

74D06CB8-E7F4-4CD0-AE5C-D2407CBA7709.jpeg
 
Unfortunately there is so much advice going around that it's hard to know who to believe?
The advice I got was from one of the owners at Jasons aquatics in Cornwall. He had been instrumental in assisting me from the start and when I mentioned that I vacuumed the gravel every week he said that I was lucky that I hadn't wiped the tank out. He said never to touch it again, and I haven't!l
Well, that is just not good advice. To have strong enough flow to eliminate the possibility of nutrients settling you would have sand blowing throughout your aquarium. It really is best practices to vacuum the sand on a regular basis. I run a bare bottom due to the volume of water movement I have in my DT and there are still two spots on the bottom that collect detritus. Two Jebao PP-25, one Ice cap 3K gyre, 2 ReefBreeder RP-M's, 2 MJ1200's on propellers and two eductor return nozzles off a Reef Octopus VarioS-6. Nutrient build-up still occurs in these dead spots that have to be occasionally dealt with. There is no way that I could have sand in my system and if you do have sand you can bet you have a lot more nutrients and detritus settling than I do. Over time, this will cause, and apparently has, nutrient issues within your DT.
 
Well, that is just not good advice. To have strong enough flow to eliminate the possibility of nutrients settling you would have sand blowing throughout your aquarium. It really is best practices to vacuum the sand on a regular basis. I run a bare bottom due to the volume of water movement I have in my DT and there are still two spots on the bottom that collect detritus. Two Jebao PP-25, one Ice cap 3K gyre, 2 ReefBreeder RP-M's, 2 MJ1200's on propellers and two eductor return nozzles off a Reef Octopus VarioS-6. Nutrient build-up still occurs in these dead spots that have to be occasionally dealt with. There is no way that I could have sand in my system and if you do have sand you can bet you have a lot more nutrients and detritus settling than I do. Over time, this will cause, and apparently has, nutrient issues within your DT.

What makes you an expert? I have my method, you have yours. My tank is doing great and I’m sure yours is as well. I am not the first person to say leave your sand bed alone.
 
What makes you an expert? I have my method, you have yours. My tank is doing great and I’m sure yours is as well. I am not the first person to say leave your sand bed alone.
Whoa, lighten up Francis.

My comments were based on the information provided, left out, and gleaned from the photo. Based on the grain size and depth of the observed sand bed, the lack of referencing any sand sifting gobies and other associated sand clean-up crew, the observed conditions in the photo and the age of the tank, with that info, the OP was given, again, IMHO, other than good advice. I never said I was an expert, I simply made observations and inferences from the provided information to surmise a reasonable conclusion as to the cause of the conditions now being experienced and a proven method to tackle the said condition. Somehow you took that as a personal attack on your husbandry methods.

There certainly are times that you may not want to disturb the entire sand bed in deep-sand beds, for example. I'm still a proponent of at least vacuuming the top layer of a deep sand bed. I have had both deep and shallow and now BB, again. BB is the best, IMHO to eliminate a possible contributing factor to increased nutrients or trapped nutrients and associated issues related to these nutrients that the OP is experiencing. Vacuuming a sand bed is a personal preference but largely dictated by the type of sand, grain size, depth of the sand bed, sand clean-up crew in the system, the number of organisms kept, type of organisms kept, and the type of reef that is the goal of the reef keeper.

Even in nature, the sand is always maintained by tidal surges, wave movement, organism manipulation, and nature's clean-up crew. Believe me, that is one deep sand bed at the reef fringes, at the drop-offs, in the lagoons and the channels feeding the lagoons. So, even deep in the lagoons where there is considerably less sand turn-over, there are different types of organisms making up that reef than what you would see at the reef crest or drop-offs. Again it depends on a lot of factors and what type of reef system the aquarist is attempting to emulate. Regardless, the sand is always being turned over, be it constantly, multiple times per day, or seasonally. Generally, we are trying to replicate the conditions observed in nature, and in doing so we need to clean the sand, at least occasionally. I'm sure that there have been aquarists that have been successful, not touching, maintaining or having their sand beds maintained for many years but I am dubious of this and have not heard of anyone with this success. I'll bet, based on my experience, conventional wisdom, anecdotal evidence, scientific observations, and general chemistry, you may get two perhaps three years before the lack of sand maintenance will catch up to you and problems start to rear their heads, identified as sand-bed related or not. There are many issues that are never resolved and then confound the aquarist which in turn lead to other problems that snowball into a tanks slow but certain demise that end up being the unreported result of not maintaining sand beds properly. Then again maybe not. Check back with me when your system has been up for more than two years without any sand maintenance.

If you want to eliminate a potential problem, vacuum your sand bed or go BB if you can stand the look, but vacuuming on a regular basis from startup certainly WILL NOT cause the tank to be wiped out as the OP was counseled. Not good advice, IMHO.
 
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Whoa, lighten up Francis.

My comments were based on the information provided, left out, and gleaned from the photo. Based on the grain size and depth of the observed sand bed, the lack of referencing any sand sifting gobies and other associated sand clean-up crew, the observed conditions in the photo and the age of the tank, with that info, the OP was given, again, IMHO, other than good advice. I never said I was an expert, I simply made observations and inferences from the provided information to surmise a reasonable conclusion as to the cause of the conditions now being experienced and a proven method to tackle the said condition. Somehow you took that as a personal attack on your husbandry methods.

There certainly are times that you may not want to disturb the entire sand bed in deep-sand beds, for example. I'm still a proponent of at least vacuuming the top layer of a deep sand bed. I have had both deep and shallow and now BB, again. BB is the best, IMHO to eliminate a possible contributing factor to increased nutrients or trapped nutrients and associated issues related to these nutrients that the OP is experiencing. Vacuuming a sand bed is a personal preference but largely dictated by the type of sand, grain size, depth of the sand bed, sand clean-up crew in the system, the number of organisms kept, type of organisms kept, and the type of reef that is the goal of the reef keeper.

Even in nature, the sand is always maintained by tidal surges, wave movement, organism manipulation, and nature's clean-up crew. Believe me, that is one deep sand bed at the reef fringes, at the drop-offs, in the lagoons and the channels feeding the lagoons. So, even deep in the lagoons where there is considerably less sand turn-over, there are different types of organisms making up that reef than what you would see at the reef crest or drop-offs. Again it depends on a lot of factors and what type of reef system the aquarist is attempting to emulate. Regardless, the sand is always being turned over, be it constantly, multiple times per day, or seasonally. Generally, we are trying to replicate the conditions observed in nature, and in doing so we need to clean the sand, at least occasionally. I'm sure that there have been aquarists that have been successful, not touching, maintaining or having their sand beds maintained for many years but I am dubious of this and have not heard of anyone with this success. I'll bet, based on my experience, conventional wisdom, anecdotal evidence, scientific observations, and general chemistry, you may get two perhaps three years before the lack of sand maintenance will catch up to you and problems start to rear their heads, identified as sand-bed related or not. There are many issues that are never resolved and then confound the aquarist which in turn lead to other problems that snowball into a tanks slow but certain demise that end up being the unreported result of not maintaining sand beds properly. Then again maybe not. Check back with me when your system has been up for more than two years without any sand maintenance.

If you want to eliminate a potential problem, vacuum your sand bed or go BB if you can stand the look, but vacuuming on a regular basis from startup certainly WILL NOT cause the tank to be wiped out as the OP was counseled. Not good advice, IMHO.
I didn't mean to start any arguments guys, but this does show my point re differing advice ! I did mention that I had 2 sand sifting gobys, but one was new in yesterday so I am yet to see if it has any effect.
 
Hey and hi,

Nobody asked, where are you parameters at? Can’t see diatoms at your stage. More, and I hate saying this, Dino. I have same. Goes away at night, comes back in daylight.

As far as vacuuming p-dub was correct. My tank is 10 years old. I always vacuumed what I could get to. You are taking out uneaten food and wate by doing it. If you don’t then there is no sense running a skimmer since you are leaving DoC in the gravel.

I just redid my substrate after 10 years. Here is what the gravel behind the rock I could not get to vacuum looks like.

74D06CB8-E7F4-4CD0-AE5C-D2407CBA7709.jpeg
Thanks. I think my parameters are all reasonably good:
Screenshot_20190428_101412.jpg
Screenshot_20190428_101412.jpg
 
I didn't mean to start any arguments guys, but this does show my point re differing advice ! I did mention that I had 2 sand sifting gobys, but one was new in yesterday so I am yet to see if it has any effect.
Oh, no worries here. I have no ego. Just try and give the best advice based on available info. I missed the goby already in there. Take what you will from what I info I have provided. I hope with all sincerity your issue gets resolved, however it happens, keep us posted. Out of curiosity, what size tank do you have?
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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