brs Pharma Hybrid Balling Method question

[ddc0715]

The BRS Pharma Hybrid Balling Method

“BRS Bulk Pharma and Tropic Marin Hybrid Balling Method Designed to maintain calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium along with critical trace elements using 4 individual liquid additives mixed to the same concentration as standard BRS Bulk Pharma Solutions. “

clearly, this is a four-part dosing setup that I am excited to implement… which I am about to implement (soon). but i do have questions. I auto dose kalkwasser as well and supplement the shortfall in my alk and ca levels with

BRS Pharma Calcium
BRS Pharma Soda Ash

Should I stop dosing Kalk if I implement a part c? not reading a lot about the balling method and kalk or the Hybrid Balling Method and kalk.
is this Hybrid Balling Method considered a four-part dosing?
So at the end of the day, I will end up with a 5 part setup (ALK,CA, MG, part c, Kalk) correct?

Why do I dose kalk? it has raised my ph to preferred levels. my tank is stable with the following levels. I have greatly reduced swings in my tank.

alk--------8.5-8.9 range dosing 200ml daily of kalk and 50mls of soda ash
ca--------450-470 range dosing 200ml daily of kalk and 50mls of CA
Mg----1450-1460 BRSMagnesium Chloride and BRS Magnesium Sulfate mix dosing 2mls daily

I am proud to say have greatly reduced swings in my tank. my apex graphs kinda look like flat lines. hahahahaha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

BRS seems to have gotten methods confused here. The hybrid is a three part, and its really not a hybrid at all. It just swaps my calcium and ak recipes for the Tropic Marin Balling calcum and alk recipes, which are essentially identical materials (except possibly relating to the relative amount of bicarbonate and carbonate used).

The three part they were previously using was a version of my DIY system (my recipe #1), and the Part 3 is magnesium sulfate and magnesium chloride.

The Balling Part C has magnesium and sulfate as its two biggest ingredients, and thus is duplicates one of the main aspects of the Part 3 of my formula. You will get too much Mg and sulfate using both as suggested by the dosing instructions.

A better way to go is to use the BRS calcium additive, the BRS alk additive (or DIY), and the Balling Part C, and then only add any other magnesium IF magnesium is declining.

Part C is unrelated to kalkwasser dosing. If is not needed when dosing only kalkwasser, and there is no need to stop using kalkwasser if you like it.

 

[ddc0715]

thanks randy. so I Will remove the mg mix I dose now and replace it with the part c. then as you say supplement mg (using your recipe) if I see a drop in mg correct? so helpful thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

thanks randy. so I Will remove the mg mix I dose now and replace it with the part c. then as you say supplement mg (using your recipe) if I see a drop in mg correct? so helpful thanks

Yes, that's the best plan.

 

[ddc0715]

one last question on part c. I can't seem to determine if i double the scoops from 4 to 7 when mixing a gallon. or do I use 4 scoops (per the box and dble the amount of liquid dosed?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The original Balling recipe has about half the alk and calcium per unit of liquid dosed as the BRS recipe.

Thus, for every 1 ml of the alk part dosed, with the BRS recipe, you need 2 mL of Part C, while original Balling used only 1 mL pf Part C.

Original Balling is 4 scoops per gallon:

Balling Components | Produktinformationen

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

Thus, if you make it as 4 scoops per gallon, you dose 2 mL for each 1 mL of the alk part dosed.

I'm not sure where the 7 is coming from. Where do you see it?

 

[ingchr1]

...I'm not sure where the 7 is coming from. Where do you see it?

When they first came out with the method they said to use 7 scoops per gallon and dose all three parts equally. They have since revised that to as you say, 4 scoops per gallon and dose it at twice the amount.

 

[ddc0715]

....

 

[ddc0715]

i say a video about 7 was that your video? INGCHR1..anyway thanks randy. i wonder if i should spread out the dosing of part c across a 24hr period or just a few hours?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

i say a video about 7 was that your video? INGCHR1..anyway thanks randy. i wonder if i should spread out the dosing of part c across a 24hr period or just a few hours?

The daily incremental effect of part C on the tank chemistry is very small, and while there is nothing wrong with spreading it out, I would not make special efforts to do so unless you already have pumps available, etc..

 

[ingchr1]

i say a video about 7 was that your video? INGCHR1..anyway thanks randy. i wonder if i should spread out the dosing of part c across a 24hr period or just a few hours?

Yes, 7 is in the original video where they discuss the method. They subsequently changed it to 4.

 

[ddc0715]

Ok i do have a dos pump ready but would like to just dose it all with in say 1 hr.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok i do have a dos pump ready but would like to just dose it all with in say 1 hr.

For part C, that is certainly fine.

 

[Jay B]

I have been using the hybrid 2 part with the Balling part C for about 6 months or more now. My Mg seems to be at about 1500 with no other Mg supplementation and I have reduced the amount of Part C. Ca is usually 450 and about 9.0Dkh. I do seem to struggle with PH hovering at the 8.0 mark even using outside air on my skimmer. I am considering using Kalk and backing off the 2 part hybrid method a little in order to raise PH a little and I am unsure if there is a best method to do this. I am glad that you are already doing this and I wonder how much of each you are dosing to what size aquarium/ sump etc. I have a 120gal DT and an extra dosing head. I did read the article in the beginning and wonder how I ever started with 2 part instead of Kalk. Any updates or other info is appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have been using the hybrid 2 part with the Balling part C for about 6 months or more now. My Mg seems to be at about 1500 with no other Mg supplementation and I have reduced the amount of Part C. Ca is usually 450 and about 9.0Dkh. I do seem to struggle with PH hovering at the 8.0 mark even using outside air on my skimmer. I am considering using Kalk and backing off the 2 part hybrid method a little in order to raise PH a little and I am unsure if there is a best method to do this. I am glad that you are already doing this and I wonder how much of each you are dosing to what size aquarium/ sump etc. I have a 120gal DT and an extra dosing head. I did read the article in the beginning and wonder how I ever started with 2 part instead of Kalk. Any updates or other info is appreciated.

BRS seems to get the recipe wrong for this method.

Are you adding my DIY part 3 as well as the Balling Part c?

My part 3 is the magnesium chloride + magnesium sulfate part they use for their normal 2 part.

You should not use both my part 3 and Balling part C. They are duplicative.

Switching to kalkwasser or a DIY two part using sodium hydroxide for the alk part (plus Balling part C) is a good way to boost pH.

 

[Jay B]

BRS seems to get the recipe wrong for this method.

Are you adding my DIY part 3 as well as the Balling Part c?

My part 3 is the magnesium chloride + magnesium sulfate part they use for their normal 2 part.

You should not use both my part 3 and Balling part C. They are duplicative.

Switching to kalkwasser or a DIY two part using sodium hydroxide for the alk part (plus Balling part C) is a good way to boost pH.

Hi Randy, thanks for your response.
I stopped adding the Magnesium from BRS when I started the Balling part C about 6 months ago. You are correct, the instructions are a little confusing. My salt mix starts off with a very high magnesium level from the last 2 batches I have made and tested. I probably need to blend the salt better as I make it in small batches from a 200 gal mix box.
My real question is where do you start with the Kalk. I am dosing about 80ml per day of BRS soda ash solution for alk, and I could just shut that off and start adding Kalk at a higher rate but I would rather have a hybrid using both which is what I think David Campbell is doing. I just want to do it in a way that is a gradual shift without any spikes or valleys. Any advice, calculations or methodology would be great.
Thanks, Jay

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My real question is where do you start with the Kalk. I am dosing about 80ml per day of BRS soda ash solution for alk, and I could just shut that off and start adding Kalk at a higher rate but I would rather have a hybrid using both which is what I think David Campbell is doing. I just want to do it in a way that is a gradual shift without any spikes or valleys. Any advice, calculations or methodology would be great.
Thanks, Jay

Adding 1 L of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) provides the same alk and calcium as about 21.4 mL of each part of my DIY Recipe #1 (the BRS washing soda recipe).

80 mL means a bit less than 4 L.

 

[Jay B]

Adding 1 L of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) provides the same alk and calcium as about 21.4 mL of each part of my DIY Recipe #1 (the BRS washing soda recipe).

80 mL means a bit less than 4 L.

That is a great way to put it into perspective. From there I can figure an evaporative level which will allow me to use a hybrid method with an alk and PH balance. Thanks for giving me the starting point. I was looking through some other threads and I was getting close but not quite there. Thanks again

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're welcome.

One way to make this sort of conversion is via this calculator:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Put in what you are using now (BRS soda ash = Randy DIY #1) and then see what it takes of other things to match it.

You'll have to enter alk by trial and error until you get to the mL per day you use, then use that dKH per day for other additives.

Happy reefing.

 

[BoneDoc]

Thanks again for all you do for the hobby Randy. Just out of curiosity, part C has some trace elements also right? If that’s the case what’s the fallacy in dosing Mg using Part C to dose the general level of trace elements?