BRStv....Can an Algae Scrubber outperform a Protein Skimmer?

[b4tn]

I ran across this this morning. Its kind of good timing because I have been considering taking my skimmer offline for some time now and I think that this kind of seals the deal for me. I am one of those that has a system that runs way too clean no matter how much food is thrown in. I have a 75 gallon DT with lots of live rock, a carbon reactor, filter sock, Turbo aquatics scrubber, and reef octo 150 skimmer. With this combo I have a really hard time keeping nutrients from bottoming out. I don’t want to remove the carbon because it has a very noticing effect on water clarity and I can tell right away when its time to be changed. I recently removed the filter sock and the slight bump in nutrients had a noticeable increase in SPS PE and nutrient levels. So i think it might be time to remove the skimmer as well.


The only downside I can think of is oxygen exchange may suffer. But I have so much surface movement with an open top that I am thinking it might not be that big of a deal. My wife got me a handheld PH tester for Christmas so I am thinking to test the PH at several times during the day for a few days, take the skimmer offline, and repeat the PH tests for a few days and see what happens. Anyone else replace their skimmer with a quality efficient scrubber?

 

[Journeyman]

I like running both. I think the skimmer removes things that the scrubber doesn't and oxygenates.

My skimmer pulls a cup a week, so I think the scrubber does most of the work with the organics.

 

[The cats wrasse]

Why not both I just received a patent for my new scrubber/skimmer filter it's just a rough drawing at the moment but it should be enough to get the idea across for what I'm trying to do comments and concerns are greatly appreciated

 

[CuzzA]

Why not both I just received a patent for my new scrubber/skimmer filter it's just a rough drawing at the moment but it should be enough to get the idea across for what I'm trying to do comments and concerns are greatly appreciated

I love innovation, but "good" skimmers work by reducing bubble chaos and consistency from a balance of air and water. That is why all skimmers are cylindrical in shape. So the bubbles aren't crashing and popping prematurely. Growing algae within the skimmer body and then removing the algae every week will lead to an extremely inconsistent and unpredictable production. All my opinion. Only one way to know for sure, but I have my doubts a design like that would be effective.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Both here

 

[The cats wrasse]

I love innovation, but "good" skimmers work by reducing bubble chaos and consistency from a balance of air and water. That is why all skimmers are cylindrical in shape. So the bubbles aren't crashing and popping prematurely. Growing algae within the skimmer body and then removing the algae every week will lead to an extremely inconsistent and unpredictable production. All my opinion. Only one way to know for sure, but I have my doubts a design like that would be effective.

This was made for all in one nano tanks where skimmers already have to deal with the inconsistency of water level from evaporation as far as the algae getting in the way goes the algae doesnt hinder the bubbles enough to pop them ofcorse some may pop but it still pulls skimmate I wouldn't think of it so much as a protien skimmer rather an algae scrubber on steroids also because its air driven without a motor it can be longer than most skimmers available for nanos thus increasing dwell time I'll have videos up within a week for a better reference to what exactly it's doing and how ...but thanks for the input much appreciated it goes a long way for me ....happy reefing!

 

[VR28man]

This was made for all in one nano tanks where skimmers already have to deal with the inconsistency of water level from evaporation as far as the algae getting in the way goes the algae doesnt hinder the bubbles enough to pop them ofcorse some may pop but it still pulls skimmate I wouldn't think of it so much as a protien skimmer rather an algae scrubber on steroids also because its air driven without a motor it can be longer than most skimmers available for nanos thus increasing dwell time I'll have videos up within a week for a better reference to what exactly it's doing and how ...but thanks for the input much appreciated it goes a long way for me ....happy reefing!

Very interested, looking forward to it!


this is, in terms of skimmer function, similar to the old glass tube+ airstone type skimmers, yes?

 

[The cats wrasse]

I love innovation, but "good" skimmers work by reducing bubble chaos and consistency from a balance of air and water. That is why all skimmers are cylindrical in shape. So the bubbles aren't crashing and popping prematurely. Growing algae within the skimmer body and then removing the algae every week will lead to an extremely inconsistent and unpredictable production. All my opinion. Only one way to know for sure, but I have my doubts a design like that would be effective.

I also believe the days of skimming are comming to an end when I first started it was the main filtration without question and now its "do I skim do I scrub?" I would venture to say that within

Very interested, looking forward to it!

Thanks buddy I'll have a transparent version built soon appreciate the feedback happy reefing!

 

[The cats wrasse]

Very interested, looking forward to it!


this is, in terms of skimmer function, similar to the old glass tube+ airstone type skimmers, yes?

In essence however the bubbler will be specific to the filter and will look much like the aerators found in today's skimmers but yeah it will be powered by an air pump

 

[biecacka]

Both here as well.



corey

 

[jda]

They don't do the same things... why even compare them. Similar to saying that a return pump and a flow pump should have a competition.

 

[jda]

I will also say this, the skimmer will just run and run and run without complaining or having any down cycles. If your tank gets out of whack and the algae in your scrubber suffers, then what do you do? Iron runs low? Iodine runs low? The scrubber is probably also not a good idea in a tank where N and P are so high that they are growth limiting to algae species.

 

[The cats wrasse]

They don't do the same things... why even compare them. Similar to saying that a return pump and a flow pump should have a competition.

They are both forms of filtration which I can see why people would compare them but I suppose I know what your saying

 

[b4tn]

@jda are they not both Means to the same end though? A skimmer removes DOC before it’s an issue where as an ATS consumes nutrients created by the DOC for growth removing it from the system. Am I incorrect?

 

[jda]

In a way. The DOC still has a chance to become ammonia/ammonium which can feed corals and fauna in a different way, or eaten whole. Scrubber removes N and P on the back end after everything is done... like a water change. Think of it as a human eating food vs an IV... are the the same, no... are the close, yes. The skimmer also removes heavy metals that mostly bind to organics - you introduce these every time that you feed. Do not underestimate the the gas exchange from a skimmer. As I said above, the skimmer cannot die or have ups and downs if you slack off.

If you do not remove the DOC and it does get broken down into ammonia/ammonium, then corals, algae and stuff can use the it and let the no3 continue to rise... same with P. This is not a new concept (fuges = ATS) and people always come back to using both.

 

[The cats wrasse]

I will also say this, the skimmer will just run and run and run without complaining or having any down cycles. If your tank gets out of whack and the algae in your scrubber suffers, then what do you do? Iron runs low? Iodine runs low? The scrubber is probably also not a good idea in a tank where N and P are so high that they are growth limiting to algae species.

@jda are they not both Means to the same end though? A skimmer removes DOC before it’s an issue where as an ATS consumes nutrients created by the DOC for growth removing it from the system. Am I incorrect?

What is doc?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I will also say this, the skimmer will just run and run and run without complaining or having any down cycles. If your tank gets out of whack and the algae in your scrubber suffers, then what do you do? Iron runs low? Iodine runs low? The scrubber is probably also not a good idea in a tank where N and P are so high that they are growth limiting to algae species.

I only run a scrubber & rarely do water changes. The algae grows fine no matter what I do or don't do, seemingly. Grows if I don't dose iron - iodine - nothing. Grows even when NO3 - PO4 are reading zero.
The only time I have seen a slow down in growth was a few weeks after starting a 24/7 photo-period (my own testing). The growth was supercharged for the first couple of weeks, but then slowed considerably, I take it because the NO3 & PO4 got so low they became limiting.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

The skimmer also removes heavy metals that mostly bind to organics -

growing algae also assimilates heavy metals, to be sure.

 

[jda]

DOC is dissolved organic compounds... what the skimmer skims out when they stick to air bubbles.

There are are lots of living things that can absorb some metals, but they do not get removed unless you export them. Aragonite can bind some too. This is cool if your ATS is going swimmingly and you are culling a bunch all the time... otherwise they can be reintroduced if something goes wrong and the algae starts to break down. You see this when people do not trim or export their chaeto and it all goes back into the tank if if dies. Again, a skimmer is a tireless worker here and the algae can do part of the job, but with more unknowns and risks. Algae is just a reservoir until it is removed, then it is an export... like if somebody never cleaned their skimmer cup and then one day it overflowed back into the tank. It happens.

Algae does not remove all metals... the skimmer is less picky about what it skims out. ...again, close, but not the exact same thing. Is it good enough? ...probably unless you are keeping some very picky stuff.

I use fuges with chaeto, dragons tongue and dragons breath. Very few that I know have the same success that I do with it (for various reasons) where I have to throw out 2-3 gallons of growth about every week, so I do not suggest this as the only means of back-end removal and would certainly not suggest this to the masses as the only means of removal, even though it CAN work if people did exactly what I did.

 

[ca1ore]

I also believe the days of skimming are comming to an end when I first started it was the main filtration without question and now its "do I skim do I scrub?" I would venture to say that within

Ironically, algal turf scrubbers have been around as long as the skimmer has LOL. I’ve personally been running both since the early 90s. If you’ve the space and resources, I see no compelling reason to not run both.