Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

[Denisk]

https://payless-petproducts.com/fluconazole200.html

These people probably wonder what is going on

Did anyone have a problem using PayPal to pay for it on the website?

Edit:
Nvm it says it's the case with some phones.

 

[ps2cho]

Did anyone have a problem using PayPal to pay for it on the website?

Nope...mine was fine.

 

[lngliv3]

https://payless-petproducts.com/fluconazole200.html

These people probably wonder what is going on

I would say so.

 

[Luis Figueroa]

36 hours into the flucon treatment

Cyano looks to be fading too?

 

[TripleT]

My Flunco 200 arrived today. I am very excited to get started. I have a couple of questions...

1. Should my bioreactor be turned off during treatment?
2. I currently dose Hydrogen Peroxide, should I stop during treatment?
3. Should I do a water change before I start treatment?
4. I am going to start Vibrant after treatment for bubble algae, how long should I wait?

Thank you to everyone who has tried this and kept us all updated with photos and info daily! I am looking forward to getting my taking back to looking good again.

 

[KenO]

Did anyone have a problem using PayPal to pay for it on the website?

Edit:
Nvm it says it's the case with some phones.

I used PP but from my Mac. It took several weird clicks, but did work. I almost gave up on it.

 

[KenO]

My Flunco 200 arrived today. I am very excited to get started. I have a couple of questions...

1. Should my bioreactor be turned off during treatment?
2. I currently dose Hydrogen Peroxide, should I stop during treatment?
3. Should I do a water change before I start treatment?
4. I am going to start Vibrant after treatment for bubble algae, how long should I wait?

Thank you to everyone who has tried this and kept us all updated with photos and info daily! I am looking forward to getting my taking back to looking good again.

I dosed Vibrant and Flucon at the same time. No issues with tank inhabitants. The Vibrant wiped out my bubble algae.

 

[KenO]

Day 5: The Tipping Point, at least for me. I will post pictures later when I get home. Even before the lights came on this morning I could see a big difference in some of the Bryopsis. I can hear the Bryopsis screaming "I'm melting......"

 

[Macdaddynick1]

How do the Clams react to this treatment?

 

[ksanfranfan]

So I've continued reading and translating the links that I provided a couple of days ago. I also continued on with some other links to the Brasil Reef Club about fluconazole.
Jose Mayo stumbled across this treatment when he was treating one of his sick clownfish. I have alot of the translated material. I'll post some of the important information and some of his findings, reasonings and information that he provided.
Please keep in mind that I am just posting his arguments and findings and not saying that they are right or wrong in any way.
Thread started on websitein Early 2014:
Guys,

let me put here an interesting observation about a "side effect", unexpected, the use I made of FLUCONAZOL on display in an attempt to cure the "Ichthyophonus hoferi hoferi" I thought I was attacking my late ocellaris: AS ALGAS- GLASS LIMO ARE SUPPLIED!

That's it! That greenish "cape" we have to scrape every few days, IT'S SUPPLYING! The corals (kenias, anemone BBT) and other fauna, seems to like it.

The aquarium has a gross 70 liters, between display and sump, and most likely about 60 liters "liquids", in which I delivered 300 mg of FLUCONAZOLE directly on the display, opening two 150 mg capsules and pouring the powder they contain, which dissolves immediately .

I would like someone else who has this "problem" to repeat the experiment to see if that is the case; The product is fully reef safe and the dose is the content of 1 capsule (150 mg) for every 30 liters.

If confirmed, it should be interesting for those who have acrylic aquarium ...

A warm embrace

 

[ksanfranfan]

Jose Mayo Responding:
Charlie,

apparently the FLUCONAZOL is harmless to animals aquarium; It is known to be toxic to fungi and its effect on microalgae also surprised me. I went to research and found that there is a basis for this: Blocking the enzymes that promote the biochemical cycle of ergosterol which, it seems, are common to fungi and algae. If this is ... it will be enough to dosage whenever the algae appear, as indeed any medicine for any "plague".

The fungal "mechanism of action" would be: "Imidazoles inhibit the incorporation of ergosterol acetate by inhibiting lanosterol demethylase by interfering with the yeast's cytochrome P-450, resulting in changes in the fluidity and permeability of the cytoplasmic membrane of the yeast. Fungus, damaging the uptake of nutrients, which is translated by inhibition of fungal growth, causing morphological changes that result in cellular necrosis. "

Such "lanosterol demethylase" is also part of the enzymatic "pool" of some algae, so perhaps the effect. Animals do not have this enzyme.

Strong hug

Jose responding to a couple of posts:
So far I only saw effect on algae, slime, those "dirty" glasses. In the others I do not know why I do not have it. Already in the cyan, those that are between the glass and the substrate, it seems that it did not have any effect, at least until the moment.

As for phosphate, in addition to algae there are other reasons to keep it under control; The bad formation of skeletons of hard corals, for example. But if Fluconazole works well on at least micro-algae, it's a lot less maintenance work, is not it?

Well ... This morning I checked more calmly and observed the following: A particularly stubborn "stain", which was in the curve of the glass and "defended" by a rock closer to the wall, where, therefore, I never got through. Magnetic brush right, is also disappearing gradually. From yesterday to today has decreased significantly in both area and "opacity"; Is turning "greenish-yellowish" and more transparent. The "bright green" of the rocks is also more "erased" and in some areas is already frankly "gray", in other means "bluish." The calcareous "wine", in turn (only a few "spots" that I have, about a half centimeter in diameter, in some rocks), until now did not show appreciable change. The animals do not show any change of appearance or behavior. The "cyan", between the glass and the substrate, are resisting bravely ...

beginning to think that the fluconazole, at least as micro-algaecide, promises!

Strong hug

I found it!

Algae are usually autotrophic and very rarely parasitic. Parasitic of at least one (1) kind is implicated in veterinary and human diseases, " Prototheca sp."

Microalgae genre "Prototheca" are closely related to the genus microalgae "Chlorella", more specifically the " Chlorella protothecoides ". The similarity between this kind and "Prototheca" is as such that is irradiated by ultra violet, the " Chlorella protothecoides " lose chlorophyll and assumes very similar to that phenotype. On the other hand, " Chlorella protothecoides " and "Prototheca" have similar nutritional requirements (requiring both thiamine and not assimilate nitrate), unlike other species "Chlorella".

To conclude the flat part: BOTH belong to the phylum "Chlorophyta" and share similar metabolic mechanisms, but for some evolutionary reason, "Prototheca" would have lost their photosynthetic capacity and become heterotrophic parasites. COSTA et al. (1992) hypothesized that, possibly by losing the photosynthetic pigment, the organism would have adapted to the heterotrophic mode of obtaining energy in order to survive.

Now the fact: There are two reported cases of "human protothecose" in Brazil, one in the state of Bahia, which was successfully treated with ... FLUCONAZOLE!

Here, the "link" Case report: Cutaneous PROTOTHECOSIS: REPORT OF THE SECOND BRAZILIAN CASE

A warm embrace

 

[ksanfranfan]

Jose responding to more posts:

1. 
   
2. kkkkkkkkkkkk ....
   
   The "thing" is not as difficult as it sounds; The explanation I gave to Carlinhos, or rather, INFORMATION, concerns the way in which imidazole (group of pharmaceutical substances) acts to obtain its effect on sensitive organisms (fungi and some algae). In fact, when we speak of antibiotics or antifungals, we speak of substances capable of disrupting or blocking vital mechanisms in the beings we intend to eliminate, and can act in various ways.
   
   Some of them interfere with the synthesis of proteins, others cause damage to the DNA, others, more common, are able to interfere with the synthesis of molecules fundamental to the integrity of the membrane or cell wall of the microorganisms, preventing them from regenerating and exposing them To the aggression of the environment. It is the case of imidazoles, among which, Fluconazole is an example: It is able to inhibit enzymes (chemical accelerators) that participate in the reactions necessary for the biochemical synthesis of certain lipids (fats) that are fundamental to the integrity of the cell membrane of organisms To him sensitive. Without an integral cell membrane, and in an aggressive environment, the microorganism becomes disorganized and dies.
   
   As there are fundamental structural differences, and different biochemical pathways between the various microorganisms, some of these drugs are of "broad spectrum", that is, they reach indiscriminately vital systems of various species and genera. Others are more "selective," or narrower-spectrum, and are able to selectively eliminate some microorganisms from one another, without interfering, or not being fatal, to other species and genera. This is also the case with Fluconazole; Although it is effective against certain fungi, algae and bacteria, inhibiting the metabolic pathways of ERGOSTEROL, it does not reach the synthesis pathways of CHOLESTEROL, which is the lipid of the cell membrane of the animals and therefore on the animals of the aquarium, or any other, Fluconazole has no effect.
   
   As for "aquarium algae", the explanation is that we are so keen on "balancing" the parameters of water, that algae ALSO LIKE!
   
   
   
   
   
   Strong hug
   Personally,
   
   the idea of the topic was reporting a personal observation of a side effect observed in the aquarium, after using the drug Fluconazole TREAT AN ATTEMPT A ocellaris ILL, not used the drug for the purpose of "fighting algae"; I have only observed the substantial reduction of the algae in the glasses which, incidentally, remains after the dosage of that medicinal product. The proposal put forward here, in the first post, was that other aquarists who have this "problem", or problems with other, more reluctant algae, experiment, even to see if the "effect" is reproducible or whether it was a question of " Strain and opportunity, "which occurred in my aquarium right now.
   
   I do not advocate hypermedicalization of our hobby in any way, but ... Have you ever wondered how much of our investment and work in aquarium maintenance is about the issue of algae control? For sweetcorns, there are several algicidal products. And for the sailors? Which ones do we have to be "reef safe"?
   
   As Fluconazole is apparently innocuous, for the reasons already discussed above, for aquarium animals and protozoa (zooxanthellae), if it has similar effects on other algae "more uncomfortable" than glass algae, which I regrettably do not have ... I think It would be worth it, the EXPERIMENT.
   
   As for its "elimination", Fluconazole is photodegraded by UV light and does not form toxic waste. It is also adsorbed to activated carbon and can be eliminated by the skimmer, thus ... The hypothesis of developing "super fungi" by Potential use, is no greater than the possibility of developing "resistance" (selection of resistant individuals from a strain of any microorganisms), by the use of any biocide or medicine, even if it is only used in a "hospital" aquarium; The "tough forms" return to the aquarium along with the fish that "escaped" the event.
   
   Strong hug
3. Question about how he came up with dosage:
4. Germano,
   
   the "base" of the dosage was the adaptation of the dose commonly used in humans, considering the aquarium as a "whole body" where fish and other inhabitants serve as "organs". So I thought, I gave "300 mg to 60 kg or more in a single dose", which is one of the usual treatments for human candidiasis (fungi), for example. There is not much experience with using this product in aquariums, so the dose was kind of a "kick based", had no other way.
   
   Ideally it would be to do tests in the laboratory, finding the dosage that reached MIC (minimum inhibitory concentration) for the sensitive organism that was thought to eradicate, in its own environment, for the case, the "marine environment" of the aquarium.
   
   There would be several other factors to consider, which also interfere with the "efficacy" of the administered drug, such as, concentration of the proteins of the medium and affinity of the product to those proteins; Concentration of anions and cations, especially calcium, and how it binds to the drug (inactivates the drug irreversibly? Not inactive?), Finally ... Parameters normally evaluated at the level of "pharmacophysiology", but which are evidently not at the Reach a mere hobby, except perhaps if you are a pharmacist and have the means.
   
   The estimated reduction of algae, especially in "difficult" areas of the aquarium, where, due to the positioning of the rocks, it was never possible to do a good cleaning with a magnetic cleaner, it was more than 80% so far (the drug continues to act, more than 15 days after dose administration). Ultraviolet, Activated Carbon and Skimmer (the glass, the skimmer without the glass worked all the time, for aeration), were replaced about 1 week ago; Do algae respond differently (different algae?) According to location; Those of the glass seem more susceptible than those of the rocks, but those of the rocks are also giving way little by little.
   
   The knowledge that Fluconazole can be withdrawn from the aquarium by these three means comes from research on the product on the internet (degradation by Ultraviolet), the logic of its pharmacology (it binds to proteins, so it is "skimmerizable") and Logic of Activated Carbon's mechanism of action (microporosities capable of "sequestering" macromolecules). Already the knowledge that the product does not affect the macro and micro fauna of the aquarium, comes from its own mechanism of action: It blocks a fundamental lipid of the cell membrane of fungi, and some algae, which is not of vital importance for protozoa and metazoa thus within the hobby criteria, is "safe reef", which the AlgaeFix seems that is not ...
   
   a warm embrace

 

[ksanfranfan]

This is his answer to being questioned about taking shortcuts with medication and long term effects and usage to treat:
Dear,

I understand your position and the Denadai and amaze you: I AM THE SAME OPINION! As I explicitei more than once and above ...

I repeat: What has been done here, it was just a REPORT OF A COLLATERAL EFFECT; The use of Fluconazole not aimed to "fight algae" but the purpose of combating a fungus, " Ichthyophonus hoferi hoferi " that the symptoms observed and after metronidazole administration without being remitted (on a first hypothesis ich) I thought you were attacking my late ocellaris. This fish also had farinaceous lesions on the shoulders and on the forehead, as well as some tiny white macules on the shoulders, which completely regressed in less than 48 hours after administration of metronidazole . However, although without apparent external lesions, the fish evolved with discoloration of the "lips" and the underside of the opercula, with inappetence and tachydispnea, and then I thought I might be affected by some different internal, perhaps fungal, cause and this Was the reason for the use of Fluconazole.

I do not think that except for acrylic aquariums or curved corners, any measure other than good parameter control and eventual "manual" cleaning to control glass algae is necessary; I EVEN CONTRAINDICATE THE USE OF MEDICINES FOR THIS CASE! The report is related to this FACT, that THE GLASS ALGAE DECREASED MORE THAN EIGHT PERCENT, because that is what I could observe, since I do not have in my aquarium other algae more uncomfortable.

I continue to think that it would be interesting to EXPERIENCE THE MEDICINE IN OTHER SITUATIONS, so that it may be known that it is effective against other types of algae other than those of glass (those of rocks, for example, "yield" more slowly) and, if so, so we can have mORE AN ALTERNATIVE iN FIGHTING aRSENAL not to change established habits and healthy, or medicalize further the hobby that we maintain.

The fact is that, as far as I could see, and search the Fluconazole is "safe reef", may soon prove to be useful if it is effective against "hard" algae; I do not know if it is.

Establishing parallels with human therapy, Fluconazole has a "dosage convenience" ranging from 150 mg IN SINGLE DOSE to 300 mg per day, so its toxicity is low and its clinical safety is wide and, by its mechanism of action Specific, its spectrum is "narrow". Unlike AlgaeFix, which is an INESPECIFIC BIOCIDE, whose CIM for algae is about 40% of the LD50 for fish and is contraindicated for use in environments containing crustaceans and molluscs, as stated in some reports I have been reading .

I quote: AlgaeFix active ingredient LC50 date

the above, if someone we are reading is any problem with algae and solve try FLUCONAZOL, the "dose" I can say it is safe because it was that I used on my display is Of 150 mg / 30 liters IN SINGLE DOSE and you should disconnect the UV filter and remove the activated carbon and the "cup" of the skimmer for a week, so that they do not degrade or remove the medicine; I think it would be in the interest of all of us to get the results of this experiment.

Strong hug

Folks, the internet is indeed "a world of information" within our reach; a "world" wonderful ... I

present to you an academic study conducted at GOTHENBURG UNIVERSITY, SWEDEN, that is, much more adequately than mere observational wishes for a hobbyist neophyte, on the effects of FLUCONAZOL and TERBINEFINA (Another very effective anti-fungal, but I do not know if it is "reef safe"), on freshwater algae and even CYANOBACTERIAS, and the route, in the case of FLUCONAZOL, is the inhibition of the synthesis of sterols also essential for metabolism Algae and cyan, as we had suspected. This encourages me to think that we may actually be faced with an alternative to controlling "uncomfortable algae" and also "annoying cyan" and I think it would be helpful if some of us could experiment and discuss the results.

This is the link: Toxicity and Mode of Action of the Pharmaceutical Fungicides Fluconazole and Terbinafine to Freshwater Algae

Who animates?

In time: The "cyan" of my aquarium, between the glass and the substrate, are also slowly retreating!

Strong hug

Eduardo,

The link only confirms the "mechanism of action" and the importance of ergosterol also for algae; The mechanism of action of Fluconazole is by blocking the route of ergosterol synthesis.

Regarding the apparently disparate results, the reported experience was based on residual doses (the study was of the ecotoxicology of the drugs in the concentration level in which they are found in some watercourses, not in "therapeutic doses"), and even then, In freshwater conditions. Saltwater is a very different reality if the microorganism has its membrane or cell wall affected. Of the cyan, the observation is personal: The ones in my aquarium seemed to "resist" at first, but now they are disappearing as well.

The author of this work places great emphasis on terbinephine as regards algae toxicity, but regrettably the mechanism of action of this is via squalene and this makes it similar to a "biocide", since the squalene route Is also common to animals. That of ergosterol, for animals, is of little or no importance.

Strong hug

Mark,

I have never experienced, but at first I believe that direct negative effect , would have no. Unlike fungi, yeasts and some algae, higher plants do not depend on ergosterol the integrity of their cell walls and membranes; The main sterol of higher plants are campesterol, sitosterol and stigmasterol that, taken together, are termed phytosterols . As the action of fluconazole is done by blocking the ergosterol synthesis pathway, which is not important for the higher plants, I believe there would be no problem here. However ...

It is known that some higher plants depend on certain FUNGI, called rhizobia, sometimes home to the roots and provide them essential to your metabolism and, unfortunately, these fungi could be affected. As I do not know how important rhizobia are to aquatic plants, I would not be able to tell you to what extent, and in this way, fluconazole could affect them.

It would be very cool if fluconazole eliminated "petecas" and other epiphytic algae without damaging the plants, but I do not have the answer; The only way to know is to experiment.

Strong hug

 

[CoralNerd]

I'm hoping Fluconazle gets rid of the bryopsis, but I also get this algae that grows in the plumbing, and from time to time the pump's kick it out. It looks different in water, but here's a picture of a piece I captured. 3rd day into treatment and I seen a bunch come out of the plumbing [emoji1] I'm still waiting for Bryopsis to start dieing however.

 

[jelly]

Check my math. 250g x 20mg ÷ 200mg pills = 25 pills correct

 

[Rick.45cal]

Check my math. 250g x 20mg ÷ 200mg pills = 25 pills correct

Yep!

 

[mcarroll]

So I've continued reading and translating the links that I provided a couple of days ago.

Jose Mayo Responding:

Jose responding to more posts:

This is his answer to being questioned about taking shortcuts with medication and long term effects and usage

Thank you for taking the time on these! Wonderful to have some confirmation as well as to see where it got it's start.

I like that "hyper-medicalization" of the hobby is on their minds!!! We strongly tend to run the opposite direction in the 'States.

I'd still like to read more on the breakdown of Azoles once they go down the drain with a water change. In particular fluconazole, in salt and freshwater ecosystems.

I didn't read too much on it yet, but I didn't see anything at all about UV alone breaking it down like they suggested....only articles about specialized processes being investigated to break it down.

 

[ChrisQ0904]

Here are some day 2 updates

80g at normal dose

That patch or bryopsis on the Monti seems like it's dieing quickly but there are other patches that are not progressing as fast. Gha and bubble algae still seem the same.

30g all algae still looks the same.

Sorry the pictures are sideways. My phone keeps posting them like that and I'm not sure how to change it.

 

[TripleT]

Any suggestions on the Bioreactor/Hydrogen Peroxide/Water Change

I dosed Vibrant and Flucon at the same time. No issues with tank inhabitants. The Vibrant wiped out my bubble algae.

My Flunco 200 arrived today. I am very excited to get started. I have a couple of questions...

1. Should my bioreactor be turned off during treatment?
2. I currently dose Hydrogen Peroxide, should I stop during treatment?
3. Should I do a water change before I start treatment?
4. I am going to start Vibrant after treatment for bubble algae, how long should I wait?

Thank you to everyone who has tried this and kept us all updated with photos and info daily! I am looking forward to getting my taking back to looking good again.

 

[mta_morrow]

My fluconazole arrived today. I'm going to be treating for gha only. Question.....do I run my skimmer or not? Just remove cup? Thanks