BTA chemical warfare?

[jzw]

i've heard rumors about 'chemical warfare' amongst btas (and did a r2r search that came up with nothing).

some reefers my brother talked to had mentioned that warfare was real. one vendor even said to me "don't keep csb's with other junk anenomes like black windows/shermans or wild nems, they'll kill the csb" - a direct quote.

is there a thread about this mystery warfare, or does anyone know anything about it? i'm sure many of you keep different morphs of btas together, right?

 

[James M]

Usually wild and captive bubble tips don’t do good together and result in chemical warfare but I don’t know much about fancy morphs killing each other

 

[reef lover]

Ive heard it talked about on the fb group alot...but i have sherman,bw,rosies,greens and 2 wild caughts and havent had no issues...but unfortunately no cs...i do run carbon.

 

[Muttley000]

Wet Web Media used to have an article and some faqs about this. Bob Fenner used to talk about the need to acclimate anemones to each other by mixing water from the QT and display before moving the nem to allow them to acclimate chemically. This is a subject I wish I knew more about, but info seems to be really hard to come across

 

[Sharkbate]

I’ve kept a mixed Nano cube of Nems for about two years . All live side by side and touching and seem quite happy together . My tank includes x2 Gigs a mini maxi about a dozen roses and two greens along with two clowns and a mix of Zoas and mushrooms ... oh and a sea urchin and a feather duster ... I run carbon constantly and swap it out weekly along with weekly water changes. Maybe this helps, maybe I’m just lucky .... works for me .

 

[DEWreefing]

Warfare usually happens when two different species of anemones are in the same tank like condi and carpets mixed with bta. Smaller tanks are more prone to this issue.

 

[reef lover]

Yes but the op was referring to the rumored chemical warfare between different varieties of quadricolors...

 

[Bob Loblaw]

...

 

[jzw]

'the bizness reef tank' has a mixed batch of bta's... here's his video... although he did mention he lost some... hmmmm....

and time to ask my tank slave to change out the carbon! ;Cat ;Cat ;Cat

 

[jzw]

Don't mix Vincent! Don't do it!

-Ty

@FarmerTy can you share your observations? which high end nems make a deadly mix?

(btw, we saw your rusty scissor fragging of expensive btas on youtube, crazy!)

 

[FarmerTy]

@FarmerTy can you share your observations? which high end nems make a deadly mix?

(btw, we saw your rusty scissor fragging of expensive btas on youtube, crazy!)

I'm no expert but I do keep a lot of "high end" aquacultured anemones. Based on my observations, I do not believe it is chemical but more so a bacterial incompatibility. Whether it is due to newer imported anemones bringing in bacteria that is incompatible with aquacultured specimens or whether it is due to the decreased resistance to disease that aquacultured specimens may have developed.

Either way, my personal opinion is you'd be crazy to mix a Colorado Sunburst with a wild BTA, a rainbow, Sherman, or black widow. There have just been too many cases where the CSB slowly over a period of a month declined, had spots on the tentacles, went into hiding in the shadows, had curled tips, lost color, and had issues inflating.

Most of the time, the removal of the offending anemone with a cipro treatment (antibiotic) corrected the issue if caught early enough.

That all being said, I have 6 varieties of cultured anemones in my system together... Mak Inferno, Arizona Sunset, Colorado Sunburst, CC Supernova, CC Sunburst, and Reefwise Lemondrop. While I can't say it'll work on everyone's system, it works in mine. I did have to treat the Reefwise Lemondrop when it first entered the system as it had evidence of a bacterial incompatibility when first introduced into the system. Once treated and put right back into the system, it was fine. Another bit of support to my hypothesis that it is indeed bacterial and not chemical warfare as the cipro remedied the situation. If it were chemical, the reintroduction of the Lemondrop should have resulted in the same issue again most likely.

Again, this is just discussing aquaculture anemones mixed with wilds, rainbows, black widows, Sherman, and rbtas. There have been plenty of people who have mixed all of the above and been fine but I would highly suggest not adding a cultured CSB into that mix. It'll be the quickest you ever lost $1500 in your life. [emoji4]

 

[jzw]

thanks @FarmerTy! that does appear logical.

an antibacteria treatment would temporarily knock out 'bad' bateria, right? so let's assume the nem is now bacteria free. but if re-introduced into that same 'bad' bacterial environment, wouldn't it get sick again? in humans, antibiotics 'run their course' and are no longer present (and no longer effective) in peoples' system after some time.

as an aside, does anyone know if cipro treats gram negative or gram positive bacteria?

so... wouldn't iodine work as an anti-bacteria agent as well? it would seem that iodine would permeate anenome/soft coral tissue fairly easily, esp as nems are a whole lotta water, with btas inflating and deflating, and thus be effective against both systemic and surface bateria. do people treat sick nems with iodine instead of cipro?

yikes, only have questions, and no experience to offer

but ty echos what a certain vendor told us - we may need an different anenome 'compatibility chart' just for bta morphs lol! i think in 50 years or less, all we will have is these morphs...

super duper nems, scissor-hand ty ;Smuggrin;Smuggrin !

 

[Joe R]

i've heard rumors about 'chemical warfare' amongst btas (and did a r2r search that came up with nothing).

some reefers my brother talked to had mentioned that warfare was real. one vendor even said to me "don't keep csb's with other junk anenomes like black windows/shermans or wild nems, they'll kill the csb" - a direct quote.

is there a thread about this mystery warfare, or does anyone know anything about it? i'm sure many of you keep different morphs of btas together, right?

What makes black widows and shermans junk anemones?

 

[jamie1210]

What makes black widows and shermans junk anemones?

Because they're only worth $200, as opposed to $1200?

 

[D-Nak]

I agree that I don't think it's chemical warfare, but something it definitely going on. The short story is that if you have an expensive anemone (CSB, nova, lemondrop, etc.) there's a chance something bad will happen to it, so risk it? What's interesting is that they're all the same species, so something that affects only certain color morphs is at play. I'm wondering if it affects the zooxanthellae and not the anemone itself.

 

[OrionN]

Anemones are tricky animals, so when one died, rather than blame it on oneself, which is not even been consider because most of the reefers know that they are the best there is. Instead, "chemical warfare" is the only reason in their mind.
"I got them in the same tank, one did well and the other did not so it is chemical warfare", as if there is a toxin that is toxic to one anemone but not the other (of the same species)

 

[kml505]

Reviving this thread with a recent encounter I had with a CSB and a widow. I have several good size rainbows for over a year and added my first high-end nem in the display. The CSB went in a few weeks ago and has been doing fine, getting more comfortable in the breeder's box. I added a widow today in the afternoon. The widow was in the compartment next to the CSB and a few hours later, I noticed the CSB was shriveled up, mouth showing. Immediately I grabbed it and moved it 5 ft to the other side of the tank in its separate breeder's box. Since then, it has recovered and seems to be improving every hour since. Had I not caught it, the CSB would have been dead in the morning. Not sure what to do with the widow now.

 

[The Coral Farm]

Why have I never heard about this before? This is so interesting!

I have wild bubble tips mixed with flower anemones and a huge pink carpet. No issues but now I'll be thinking about this when I add more species

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I can testify to this being real. I was a total unbeliever and tried to keep several nems together: Rainbows, black widow, wildfire, nova and CSB. Well it about cost me my nova and CSB. I had to move them out and they are now making a slow recovery.

 

[galaxy_man_66]

My rainbow bta and my mini maxi go at it every once in a while.