Bubbles coming from brown stuff on sand, dinos or cyano?

[Biff0rz]

Newer tank going though the uglies but I know bubbles can indicate dinos. Nitrates and phosphates were at zero when if first set up but ever since I added fish they have been at nominal levels. I had diatoms a few weeks ago and they haven't gone away (expected) but I noticed tonight that there are small bubbles being trapped in it. My initial feeling is cyano because of the uglies but I'd like to confirm if possible.

 

[lapin]

If it creates mats and is easy to blow off good chance in a new tank its cyano as long as you have nutrients

 

[taricha]

Looks dinos to me.
There's more of a brick red in the brown than a diatom lighter tan brown.

 

[Biff0rz]

Looks dinos to me.
There's more of a brick red in the brown than a diatom lighter tan brown.

How can I determine better? Diatoms were earlier, I'll add that pic. But I don't see any of the stringy stuff that others always refer to. What should happen if I disturb the sand bed or blow on it?

Also, this stuff seems to be going all over everything. Rocks, glass, overflows, return piping.

Diatoms pic?

Hard to see in these pics but it's all brown

 

[Biff0rz]

Also took a video to help:

 

[Biff0rz]

Did some water tests tonight, now I'm a bit more concerned.
Nitrates - 3 (nyos)
Po4 - 0.01 (Hanna ulr)

I have two small clowns and a butterfly fish in the tank. I feed them about 1 cube of mysis and a pinch of pellets over the course of the day. I have a roller filter, skimmer, and cheato. I'm skimming more dry than wet, skimmate is large bubbles in the collection cup. The cheato is growing slowly. My nitrates are always dropping. Since my po4 is so low I assume I should feed more, right?

I dosed some sodium Nitrate tonight to bring nitrates back up to the 10-12 range.

 

[taricha]

yeah. this is dinos. One test you can convince yourself with is to suck up some material, collect in a cup or bottle and shake vigorously to separate. It'll recollect into clumps and strands a short time (5-15 min.)

a microscope is definitive. But I'll go ahead and tell you this is going to be dinos.
Low PO4 is pretty typical conditions for onset of dino outbreaks.

 

[Biff0rz]

yeah. this is dinos. One test you can convince yourself with is to suck up some material, collect in a cup or bottle and shake vigorously to separate. It'll recollect into clumps and strands a short time (5-15 min.)

a microscope is definitive. But I'll go ahead and tell you this is going to be dinos.
Low PO4 is pretty typical conditions for onset of dino outbreaks.

Ah crud. What can I do? Is this something I wait out or do I have to keep removing it etc?

 

[taricha]

UV + removing nutrient limitation by dosing PO4 (and then also NO3) works for most people.

 

[Biff0rz]

UV + removing nutrient limitation by dosing PO4 (and then also NO3) works for most people.

I've done some reading and some are saying not to dose po4? What size uv would I need?

 

[taricha]

I've done some reading and some are saying not to dose po4? What size uv would I need?

Actually, I confused this with another thread. You say your po4 levels are normal and your tank is new. So just let it ride, call it the Uglies, and suck out the worst part and your tank will mature and go through phases as that happens.

Edit, but UV is fine too. 1 watt per 2-3 gallons is plenty.

 

[Biff0rz]

Actually, I confused this with another thread. You say your po4 levels are normal and your tank is new. So just let it ride, call it the Uglies, and suck out the worst part and your tank will mature and go through phases as that happens.

Edit, but UV is fine too. 1 watt per 2-3 gallons is plenty.

It's a little low at 0.01 on the Hanna ulr. I assumed feeding more would increase both P and N.

 

[taricha]

That's part of why (in mature tanks) dosing PO4 and NO3 give better results than heavy feeding.

 

[Biff0rz]

That's part of why (in mature tanks) dosing PO4 and NO3 give better results than heavy feeding.

I did the coffee filter test anyways, pics attached.

 

[taricha]

looks like it formed tiny clumps - probably amphidinium dinos seems most consistent with the tank pics and the coffee filter test.

 

[Biff0rz]

looks like it formed tiny clumps - probably amphidinium dinos seems most consistent with the tank pics and the coffee filter test.

So now we're back to saying it is dinos? I'm so confused. It looked like soot to me, but I'll do another test just to be sure. Do I need a microscope to truly tell? And since the tank is new should I still try to fight them?

 

[taricha]

Sorry for not being clear. I think it probably is dinos, and most likely amphidinium, a microscope would tell for certain. However, I don't think that doing the usual treatments for dinos is the best idea in a new and maturing system (just my opinion)
Early on, I think people are better off calling it "the uglies" and letting the tank mature. Suck out the worst parts and don't think about it too much.

 

[Biff0rz]

Sorry for not being clear. I think it probably is dinos, and most likely amphidinium, a microscope would tell for certain. However, I don't think that doing the usual treatments for dinos is the best idea in a new and maturing system (just my opinion)
Early on, I think people are better off calling it "the uglies" and letting the tank mature. Suck out the worst parts and don't think about it too much.

So I'm starting to think dinos. I have a microscope on the way, arrives today. I should have some pics later today.

 

[Biff0rz]

Sorry for not being clear. I think it probably is dinos, and most likely amphidinium, a microscope would tell for certain. However, I don't think that doing the usual treatments for dinos is the best idea in a new and maturing system (just my opinion)
Early on, I think people are better off calling it "the uglies" and letting the tank mature. Suck out the worst parts and don't think about it too much.

So, dinos?



videos-

 

[vetteguy53081]

It’s Dino
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights and work your white lights up slowly