Bubbles in sand bed

[CubanHogFish]

Hi if any one can help with this i would like to know, either to be concerned or is a good thing, I've been cycling my tank for 5 1/2 weeks now i haven't seen any ammonia or nitrate spikes in the tank as of now I've had some damsels in there for almost 3 weeks now and 2 chromis for about 1 week now I've noticed that in my sand bed i have bubbles trapped in there, where are they coming from????????? and is it normal

 

[Downbeach]

How deep is your sand bed? It sounds like just the final stage of a nitrogen cycle, converting NO3 (nitrate) into N2(nitrogen gas). Basically NH3(amonia) created in your system, nitrifying bacteria converting to NO2(nitrite), nitrifying bacteria converting to NO3(nitrate), denitrifying bacteria converting to N2(nitrogen gas), bubbling up through the substrate.

 

[Amphibious]

This is normal in a sand bed. But I have some questions...

What size is your display tank (DT)?

How deep is your sand bed?

What type of filtration system have you employed?

How much LR have you put into DT.

I’ll probably think of more ??s when you respond.

Thanks

Dick

 

[CubanHogFish]

DT is 75 gallons, Sand bed is about 2-2 1/2 inches deep live sand , i have 75 pounds of live dry rock, the filtration system is overflow into bio balls then skimmer then refiugium with miracle mud in it and i have about hand full of cheato in it now i don't know what type of filtration system would you say it is but that's what i have

 

[CubanHogFish]

If it is the ending of the nitrogen cycle how long does it last?( before i can put in real fish and coral) and do the bubbles ever go away or am i going to always see bubbles like that ( not that it bothers me)

 

[Downbeach]

Since your system is always creating those elements, i.e. fish excrement, decaying matter, etc., you will always need a good biological filter system to deal with it, so the nitrogen cycle should be unending.

 

[CubanHogFish]

DownBeach What is your defenition of a good biological filtration system?

 

[Downbeach]

"Biologically", any system that allows a complete nitrogen cycle, as mentioned in post #2. This usually includes LR, DSB, etc. Any system that provides an environment for the neccessary bacteria(nitrifying/denitrifying) to exist in enough numbers to deal with the process.

 

[CubanHogFish]

Gotcha! OK

 

[CubanHogFish]

Pretty much this is what i have now the sand bed is deeper then what it appears in the pics but the stand has a frame around the tank and its taking up some of the view

 

[CubanHogFish]

And also when do I do my first water change I don' have any NH3,NO2 or NO3 all my reading are at 0 ppm

 

[Amphibious]

Thank you for the pictures. They help explain “things”. My personal assessment based on our conversation and the pics.

Your tank is in the very beginning phase of the “cycle” and represents a dangerous time to have introduced fish into the system. I’m not sure where or who would instruct you to “cycle” the tank using live fish. That is very “old school” habit and not at all recommended today. You mentioned you have "75 pounds of live dry rock”. That is a misunderstanding of what live rock (LR) is. Rock is either alive with bacteria or dry base rock which, in time will become LR. Actual Live Rock is bought wet and will have live critters on and in it besides the bacteria. It, LR, will jump start your “cycle” by introducing the necessary nitrifying bacteria to your system.

The “live sand” (LS) you mentioned was probably the bagged LS sold by Careb-Sea or some other brand. That is not true LS in my opinion but a marketing ploy to get you to believe your starting with a sand bed alive with nitrifying bacteria. Think about this, Nitrifying bacteria are aerobic (meaning needing oxygen to live). The sand company probably introduced the bagged sand with nitrifying bacteria BUT without a constant supply of oxygen to keep them alive, how long do you think they will survive. What with storage time in their warehouse, shipment to a wholesaler’s warehouse, holding until your LFS purchases it and then time on their shelf until you bought it? This is my personal opinion BUT I believe the “live sand” is not! The only source for REAL live sand is from a supplier collecting it from an ocean source and selling it to you direct. The only other reliable source of LS is from a dealer’s or friend’s system.

Will your sand become “live”? Yes in time, just like your dry rock will become “live” in time. This slows down your systems “cycle” time and helps explain why you are seeing zero NH3, NO2 and NO3. Your “cycle” is in the beginning phase and the levels of those elements are too minuscule for hobbyist level test kits to show up. Time to be patient. As some one once said, “The only thing that happens fast in a SW system is disaster.” Remember that sage advise.

There’s more, but I need to go for now.

Dick

 

[Amphibious]

I’ve seen too many people get into and out of the hobby because of failure due to not understanding the complexities of marine aquarium systems. The main problem it seems to me is, they expect instant results. Nothing could be farther from the truth. A certain popular TV show doesn’t help either with their completing a huge “tank” in the length of a TV show from concept to completion in an hour. It makes for good TV but IT’S NOT REALITY!

Reality is it takes a system time and patience for a system to “brake in” or as we say, “cycle”. It begins after we have all the system parts put together and add SW. But some of the “parts” can either be “live” or not. Using actual LR, and LS as opposed to “dry” rock and sand, has its advantages. The LR and LS have life in and on it. In the early stages of the cycle some of that life is going to die off causing a rise in Ammonia (NH3). As the NH3 rises, Nitrifying bacteria begin to consume it reducing it to Nitrite (NO2). Thus the “cycle” begins.

Ammonia and Nitrite are very toxic to the marine critters we desire to keep alive in our aquariums. The smaller the volume of water the faster disaster can happen. Hence, the larger the volume of water we begin with the slower a change will take place. Which brings forth the sage advice of “bigger is better” when it comes to a marine aquarium system.

Your 75 gallon DT is a good size to begin learning the basics of keeping the system in “balance”. The system being all the parts, plus the water parameters, and the livestock must be kept in balance, and disease free. NOT an easy chore for anyone especially in the early “learning” stages.

Another quote some sage “expert” said is, the three most important words in the marine aquarium hobby is, “Research, Research, Research”. I’ve found just when I think I'm done, I have to research some more. You will never be done researching this fascinating hobby. Not only is it complex (notice I didn’t say complicated) but it is ever changing with new advancements in equipment, additives, and techniques.

Before I go, I want to direct you to two articles. The first is by Eric Borneman, a coral scientist who gave the best explanation of the “cycle” I’ve ever read. You can find it here - The Cycle

The second is by yours truly and is titled, “Nine Simple Rules, Buying Healthy Fish and Keeping Them Healthy”. Find it here - Nine Simple Rules

I hope this has helped unlock some of the “secrets” to getting your system through the cycle. Remember, “Good luck only comes to those that prepare for it”. In our hobby we prepare for success by researching everything.

Dick

 

[CubanHogFish]

Hi Dick I've read all your posts and also your links very instructive but of course as a newbie i didn't read this until i already did some of the stuff i probably shouldn't have. I do have fish,snails,serpent star fish and 2 coral frags and now i think i'm regretting doing so. I think i'm having an algae outbreak i find my self scrubbing the glass everyday and the "LIVE" dry rock is browning from the top like if something is settling on it i don't know if is a good thing or a disaster about to happen. the corals are looking great and i'm actually getting good polyp extension from my daisy polyp frag and green torch coral any advice in what to do about algae i also did a water change it has been exactly 6 weeks today don't know if that was a smart move or not i am running gfo and a carbon reactors

 

[Amphibious]

Hi Dick I've read all your posts and also your links very instructive but of course as a newbie i didn't read this until i already did some of the stuff i probably shouldn't have.

Unfortunately, I've heard that all too often over the years. Newbies get in thinking something like, “It’s just an aquarium. How hard can it be?” I’ve been in SW as a hobbyist for 50 years and as a business for 45 of those years. It is truly sad the death rate of fish, corals and invertebrates killed in the “learning process” of keeping a successful marine aquarium. Perhaps the saddest thing is the number people who get in and out of SW in the first year.

I read an article in a SW trade journal that the SW industry is the fastest growing section of the “pet” industry. Yet, it stated that 85% of new hobbyists are gone in one year, and astoundingly, another 25% of those left are gone by the end of the third year. To put that into perspective, for every 1000 newbies in a year, 850 drop out in one year and by the end of the third year there are 113 who have stuck with it. Those 113 are hobbyists that paid “the price” to learn. They had the passion to develop the determination to learn the complexities of keeping a successful marine aquarium. Remember, I said somewhere above, “Keeping a marine aquarium is not impossible nor complicated BUT it is complex. You simply must be determined to learn the complexities.

You Mr. Mitch have begun the journey. I hope you continue because the reward is literally, a piece of the reef, right in your home. People will marvel at the beauty you created and, many will most likely want there own SW aquarium. Continue to be “wise” and research, research and research some more until the complexities of SW aquariums are unlocked. You can and will have a beautiful reef one day.

So, where do you go from here? Well consider this your new “starting point”. You must allow your tank to go from here to completing the cycle. You are beginning to “see” the first signs of “new tank syndrome” with the algae outbreak and the brown stuff settling on the rock. The brown stuff is an outbreak of diatoms, normal. The algae is coming back everyday because of the algae “formula” which is, water, nutrients and light. Water and light you need for the corals, fish, etc. The nutrients are coming from the corals, fish, etc.

Right now my advice is to stop adding any new livestock until this 600 pound gorilla settles down. You may lose all the livestock due to the rise in Ammonia that is inevitable, then the rise in Nitrite that is going to follow as sure as night follows day. Water changes will help BUT not alleviate the problem.

You must test your water for Ammonia and Nitrite every other day, at least. Track the results on paper so you can see the resulting Ammonia curve rise to a height and then one day later fall to zero. Then Nitrite will follow suit. When those two poisons register zero, the initial cycle is over and you can relax a little.

Adding new things to your DT must proceed slowly because you can cause a mini-spike in Ammonia easily which could take out some of your more delicate critters. Also, you must research and plan all new inhabitants BEFORE you purchase them. In the beginning we all made impulse purchases with little thought to the consequences of our poor judgement, until it’s two late. AVOID making that mistake!

I’ve got to rum for now. Keep in mind those three most important words, research everything beforehand!

Dick

 

[CubanHogFish]

Dick thank you for help, you have been very informative. Ive always loved the hobby but never had the chance to get in it now that I am ready I want to stay in it never did it go through my mind of getting out of it. I consider this hobby my second wife to death do us apart, lol I will follow your advice, sit and wait hopefully the live stock that I have in there now doesn't die if it does, well lesson learned. Thank again I will keep you posted on the progress of the tank as it goes on

 

[Amphibious]

I consider this hobby my second wife to death do us apart

That’s the right attitude.

You will hear a lot about quarantine (QT). I am a staunch supporter of QTing all fish for 30 days minimum, corals and invertebrates 14 days. BUT, I have a different approach to QTing than most. Many (most?) hobbyist’s think of QT as a hospital tank. My approach is 180 degrees from that. I set up my QT as a “Spa”. When a human goes to a Spa (usually reserved for the women ) they get treated to a warm relaxation treatment, being pampered, fed healthy foods, etc. My idea is to bring the fish from a state of starvation and stress to a state of health. Their natural immune system will kick in and beat back most diseases. A healthy natural immune system beats chemical treatments about 98% of the time in my experience. That’s why I QT all my fish for a minimum of 30 days.

Here’s a link to my QT procedure - Spa QT

Healthy fish and corals make for happy reefing.

Dick

 

[CubanHogFish]

Hi dick, How Or where can i find info on how to maintain a QT obviously we put fish and other critters in there that maybe have ick any many other things. how do we remove all that from the QT after live stock has been cured and put in the DT.

 

[Amphibious]

Here’s a link to my recommendations on QT...

My QT

If you have specific questions, PM me.

Thanks

Dick

 

[Psy42017]

I’ve seen too many people get into and out of the hobby because of failure due to not understanding the complexities of marine aquarium systems. The main problem it seems to me is, they expect instant results. Nothing could be farther from the truth. A certain popular TV show doesn’t help either with their completing a huge “tank” in the length of a TV show from concept to completion in an hour. It makes for good TV but IT’S NOT REALITY!

Reality is it takes a system time and patience for a system to “brake in” or as we say, “cycle”. It begins after we have all the system parts put together and add SW. But some of the “parts” can either be “live” or not. Using actual LR, and LS as opposed to “dry” rock and sand, has its advantages. The LR and LS have life in and on it. In the early stages of the cycle some of that life is going to die off causing a rise in Ammonia (NH3). As the NH3 rises, Nitrifying bacteria begin to consume it reducing it to Nitrite (NO2). Thus the “cycle” begins.

Ammonia and Nitrite are very toxic to the marine critters we desire to keep alive in our aquariums. The smaller the volume of water the faster disaster can happen. Hence, the larger the volume of water we begin with the slower a change will take place. Which brings forth the sage advice of “bigger is better” when it comes to a marine aquarium system.

Your 75 gallon DT is a good size to begin learning the basics of keeping the system in “balance”. The system being all the parts, plus the water parameters, and the livestock must be kept in balance, and disease free. NOT an easy chore for anyone especially in the early “learning” stages.

Another quote some sage “expert” said is, the three most important words in the marine aquarium hobby is, “Research, Research, Research”. I’ve found just when I think I'm done, I have to research some more. You will never be done researching this fascinating hobby. Not only is it complex (notice I didn’t say complicated) but it is ever changing with new advancements in equipment, additives, and techniques.

Before I go, I want to direct you to two articles. The first is by Eric Borneman, a coral scientist who gave the best explanation of the “cycle” I’ve ever read. You can find it here - The Cycle

The second is by yours truly and is titled, “Nine Simple Rules, Buying Healthy Fish and Keeping Them Healthy”. Find it here - Nine Simple Rules

I hope this has helped unlock some of the “secrets” to getting your system through the cycle. Remember, “Good luck only comes to those that prepare for it”. In our hobby we prepare for success by researching everything.

Dick

Hey Dick,
I know this is an old post, but I am trying to check the links you sent and they are not available. Can I get a repost of these? You sound extremely informative and I would like to give them a look. Thanks in advance.