Building a Hang On Back Refugium...need help?

[InDahOcean]

So I recently upgraded from 20 gallons to a 29 gallons tank. I got the tank for really cheap on Craiglist (yes lol). I did a lot of scrubbing and cleaning the 29 gallons, and it looks good as new. Ok let's get onto topic, so since this upgrade is huge (for me lol). I need a new filter and can't use that old HOB filter that I got from Petco like a year ago. So I decided to build a HOB refugium sump (idk if that is even possible). I'm still wondering what the size for the HOB sump, and how many gallons of what it should hold? I was gonna go with a 14'x10'x8' (lwh) dimension with 4.8 gallons of water. Then I heard that 10 gallons + sump is better for 29 gallons? I don't think I can fit 10 gallons in the back. So does it really matter 4.8 gallons or 10 gallons sump? Really if I'm gonna build a 10 gallons sump it's gonna cost more than the 4.8 because I have the power head pump and materials for a HOB DIY. I'm not biased of the 10 gallons idea, and I can totally build that (not a HOB style though). I was just wondering will it be worth (the extra money) and does the extra gallons of water makes a difference?

 

[Joeganja]

save your time and money and buy an already made one for like $100 you can get some nice ones and you won't have to worry about if it'll leak. If your looking to do a project then It be more fitted just to buy a 10 gallon tank add an overflow box and get a return pump and throw that 10 gallon under your main tank

 

[jsker]

Look at the CPR HOB filters. I used HOB filter for a very long time, and I am using my very first sump. I built my first HOB is the late 80's and another in the mid 90's. The last HOB I bought for the reason it was less expensive to buy then to build. FYI I did build my sump, for the reason it was less to build then to buy. using a HOB is not about water volume, it is about skimming and flow. I would also pull my bio media after about 6 months. I would run the Berlin method of filtration, us my live rock for most of my filtration.

 

[InDahOcean]

Hi, thx for the reply. Uhm so I have this 50 gallons tank and 30 gallons wet dry trickle filter that I was using for a freshwater tank. It's completely empty of water and the freshwater fish are gone now. Anyway, I was wondering if I can somehow turn the wet dry trickle filter into like a refugium filter? Also, the WD trickle filter is not getting enough water. So the pump is most of the time running dry, and it's really noisy. Is there any way to fix that?

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

When your pump runs dry, does the display tank level rise too high? If so, you can add a ball or gate valve AFTER the pump on the way to the return and slow the flow a bit to accommodate the slower overflow drain. Don't put before the pump as will cause cavitation and premature burn out of the pump. Possible to post pics of the wet dry and will be able to better describe steps necessary to convert to more of a sump style. Any plans on protein skimmer? That'd be the only conversion I'd recomend for a wet dry honestly without major modification (and space then still being an issue). I run my wet dry trickle as a sump for protein skimmer and media, then a seperate fuge that overflows into return section of "sump"

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Also, if build a hob fuge of that size, I would definitely recomend building a stand of sorts to support its weight, as I would be nervous with that weight supported by the glass itself.

 

[InDahOcean]

Yeah, the water level in the 50 gallons is alway full while the sump is like 10%. I'm using an eshop wet/dry trickle filter. Also, I think the local fish store screwed me over. When I got the sump, he gave me an Eshop PF-1000 (which is rated for 125-150g tank) Also he told me to get an Eheim compact+ pump (500GPH-1320GPH). At that time I didn't know, and he was like talking all about the benefits and stuff. There is like switch on the pump (i think that is to change the GPH?). Is this an overkill for just 50 gallons tank? Also, what do mean by "Don't put before the pump as will cause cavitation and premature burnout of the pump". One time I left the pump dry for like a week, because I was really annoyed that every 2 days I have to put new waters into the tank (evaporation). The pump always run like a freaking jet engine anyway. So should I like get a new overflow box and pump or just stick with these? Oh and here are some pictures of what my freshwater tank used to be. Btw I want to turn this into a reef aquarium now. Images: Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4

 

[InDahOcean]

The W/D trickle filter is pretty big it's like about 3/4 my 50 gallons tank. Here is the dimension 29'x12'x16.5' (LxWxH).

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Pics didn't show up in thread.
Bigger the sump the better. More water volume and more stability. If the tank level is stable and the sump is only place losing volume then it's simply evaporation and without an auto top off is a standard and required to maintain levels in sump. Yes, the knob on the pump is to control the flow rate. From the sounds of it since you've used it without error, aside from the evap (which again is a standard requirement of upkeep), I'd say you have it set properly. Also, saltwater tank requires top off with RODI water, not salt. The water evaporates but the salt doesn't. If you don't actively top off the sump it can lead to fluctuations in salinity. I haven't splurged on the auto top off (ato) yet so I'm actually doing 3 small top offs a day as my ac is out currently so fan cooling water in sump.
It is possible the impeller may be damaged due to running dry without top offs causing the loud noise. It's easy to disassemble and inspect if suspect that as an issue.
One sec and I'll explain cavitation. (Kiddo climbing all over me so unable to type much more this sec) will follow up momentarily.

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

The chamber setup is what matters in conversion to a fuge or sump from wet dry. I'll look at the referenced model in a sec as well and offer advice I may have on that. Again, everything I offer is from personal experience and research.

 

[InDahOcean]

Yeah I redo the picture urls. You can click on there and see the sump now.

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

From what I'm getting, I would say bring your water level up to where it's safe to cut off the power and a flood won't happen. Mark that point on the sump as a "safety" line. (If need be, can drill holes in return slightly under water line at desired water level tank can drain to in display to break siphon). It will help to use a sharpie and add max and min lines. Basically the min line needs to be a little above where the pump begins to make crazy noises. The max line should be at your optimal skimmer level setting. (Again, as long as safe from power outage overflow). Then, just peek in and make sure line is between max and min (preferably topped off as regularly as possible to maintain stability)

 

[InDahOcean]

Yeah, i think it's evaporation, but do you know if there is a way to increase the water level in the pump. Looking at these refugium pictures online, my sump is only like 1/3 the water level of other sump or refugium. I want to get this water level thing solve out first before hacking down the acrylics and starting making a refugium. Do you think it's because my pump is really powerful and my overflow is not? Like I read some article online about refugium, and they said that your pump needs to have less GPH than your overflow. Even if I turn the knob on the pump down to the lowest GPH, the sump water level is still the same.

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Older pic, but here's the jist. I have a wet dry I use as sump. Removed mechanical filter, removed bio balls, installed skimmer in left portion and have my overflow into that section. Return section to right. What I really NEED to do, is close off the bottom portion where water goes from left to right, then dremel out the wall between at my ideal skimmer height so that level on left never changes and the only fluctuation will be in my return portion. The fuge is another addition I made, simple eshope overflow into return section of sump and small return pump back into fuge.

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

If your pump were too powerfull, you'd have water coming out the top of display tank. What type of overflow?

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

You can add water in the sump to whatever level you desire as long as it's safe to cut power and not have a flooding issue. Mine runs about 9-8" full. every tank is different though for their needs. If adding to water level increasing volume, make sure you're at your current "full" level after top off. Then add salt water to desired level. Mark sump. Top off with rodi as needed daily.

 

[InDahOcean]

So like every time I add like a certain amount of water into the sump, the pump just suck up the all the water and runs dry. Pretty much I'm scared of adding water into the sump because if I do that the pump just suck up everything and add it into the tank, and which cause a flood. Even at the low flow rate (500-600 gph) the thing just sucks everything. Here is my overflow box: http://www.eshopps.com/products/overflowboxes/pf1000/.

 

[InDahOcean]

Also if I lower my tank water level, the water won't reach the overflow box. I think the overflow is pretty slow, like (1o0 gph). When I first got the overflow box it didn't fit the tank, so I have to make few adjustments to the tank.

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Gotcha. See in the pic of my sump the little ball valve. That is to cut back the flow to the tank since pump oversized. Ideally, you want to have a "y" before the ball valve. The main line from pump into the bottom of the Y. Now there are two outlets from the Y. One side will need a small piece of hose then a ball valve after to restrict flow to tank to prevent overflow. The other side of the y can be a piece of tubing that drops back into overflow section of the sump. Basically this will restrict the flow back to the tank without causing the pump to overwork itself by spinning and not having anywhere to discharge the water. Make sense?

 

[ReeferMaddness843]

Also, I have the eshope nano in my fuge to sump, if I under power my return, I begin to slowly build a bubble in the u tube until it actually breaks a siphon. Very bad if that happens. Others may not have that issue, but I do if underpowered to my overflow.