Bullying or Establishing Dominance??

[JoshO]

I bought 2 clowns yesterday, they've been paired in my lfs for a few months now.
Since getting them into the QT the darker one has been slowly getting more aggressive towards the lighter (slightly bigger) one.
Is this re-establishing dominance or just straight up bullying??
I'm going to be running Cupramine soon so I don't want to add further stress to already stressed fish!

 

[Peace River]

Sounds like clowns being clowns - maybe a little bit of both. It is part of their wiring to establish a hierarchy.

 

[JoshO]

Sounds like clowns being clowns - maybe a little bit of both. It is part of their wiring to establish a hierarchy.

Did anything seem out of the ordinary on the video?

 

[Peace River]

My comments are based on your description. I could not view the video - probably an issue with my browser.

 

[JoshO]

My comments are based on your description. I could not view the video - probably an issue with my browser.

The darker one is almost pinning the other in corners and under some pvc pipe. Anytime the lighter one is in open water the darker darts for it, never seems to make contact but that might just be my eyes being too slow!

 

[Peace River]

The darker one is almost pinning the other in corners and under some pvc pipe. Anytime the lighter one is in open water the darker darts for it, never seems to make contact but that might just be my eyes being too slow!

The good news is that there isn't the body injury or fin shredding that can sometimes happens. As long as the male (the smaller one) is still getting food then I would suggest that you just continue to monitor the situation for any more serious physical damage.

 

[JoshO]

The good news is that there isn't the body injury or fin shredding that can sometimes happens. As long as the male (the smaller one) is still getting food then I would suggest that you just continue to monitor the situation for any more serious physical damage.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep monitoring them both to see if it settles down

 

[Qasimja]

yea thats normal you will know if it gets bad when i had a female tomato clown reject a pairing she tried to kill him tore his fins up really bad had to take him out within 20 minutes

 

[JoshO]

Bumping this up as the aggression is increasing.

The victim seems to be almost seizing at points, so does the bully, I'm led to believe this is their way of conceding to the other, however it's still going on. The victim seems to be gasping a lot now which is concerning me.

 

[JoshO]

#reefsquad

 

[GoVols]

Bumping this up as the aggression is increasing.

The victim seems to be almost seizing at points, so does the bully, I'm led to believe this is their way of conceding to the other, however it's still going on. The victim seems to be gasping a lot now which is concerning me.

One thing that comes to mind:

You might have two females and one maybe bulling the other.

If so, the other will be bullied to it's death.

 

[JoshO]

One thing that comes to mind:

You might have two females and one maybe bulling the other.

If so, the other will be bullied to it's death.

Any way of determining if they are or not

 

[GoVols]

Any way of determining if they are or not

I don't think you tell their gender, but the male will accept a female and take care of her if they are truly bonded. She might tell him what to to, but she won't try to kill him.

Two females just are not going to work out. Can only be one master with them and they can change genders. If the dominate female dies a male will change into a female.


"First, to be clear, all clownfish are born gender neutral. They are not male nor female at birth and as juveniles. The other thing that makes sexing Ocellaris Clownfish difficult is that they can become male and then female."

 

[JoshO]

I don't think you tell their gender, but the male will accept a female and take care of her if they are truly bonded. She might tell him what to to, but she won't try to kill him.

Two females just are not going to work out. Can only be one master with them and they can change genders. If the dominate female dies a male will change into a female.


"First, to be clear, all clownfish are born gender neutral. They are not male nor female at birth and as juveniles. The other thing that makes sexing Ocellaris Clownfish difficult is that they can become male and then female."

Any idea roughly how long the bonding takes to be completed? According to the lfs I got them from, they'd been together for 2 months. They've only been in my QT for just over 24 hours. No visible injuries yet, and one does seem to be conceding, yet the chasing is carrying on

 

[Peace River]

If they have been together at the LFS for a few months then it is unlikely that they are both females. Sometimes a move can reset the dominance process. Unfortunately there is not a set time frame. I currently have 6 different species of clownfish (with pairs in separate tanks) and am dealing with something very similar with a pair of cinnamon clownfish. My recommendation continues to be to monitor for body injuries and make sure they both are able to eat at least a little.

 

[Aaron Soliz]

Bumping this up as the aggression is increasing.

The victim seems to be almost seizing at points, so does the bully, I'm led to believe this is their way of conceding to the other, however it's still going on. The victim seems to be gasping a lot now which is concerning me.

I would like to jump on helping as well. I recently had or may still have the same issue. My slightly bigger one actually did damage on all the smaller ones fins. Just like your smaller clown... it couldn’t come out in the open without the bigger chasing it off. Once I realized okay the smaller one has taken a beating... i actually bought a breeder net and put the bigger one in there for 2 1/2 to 3 days. Let her out last night and it’s a huge different. She is way less aggressive towards him. She will bump him here and there but when she gets close to the smaller... the smaller will do the dance to let her know he is submitting so stop being him up lol. I would buy a breeder net and stick “her” in there. She forgot where her territory is too so that will probably happen to your “female” as well.

 

[JoshO]

I would like to jump on helping as well. I recently had or may still have the same issue. My slightly bigger one actually did damage on all the smaller ones fins. Just like your smaller clown... it couldn’t come out in the open without the bigger chasing it off. Once I realized okay the smaller one has taken a beating... i actually bought a breeder net and put the bigger one in there for 2 1/2 to 3 days. Let her out last night and it’s a huge different. She is way less aggressive towards him. She will bump him here and there but when she gets close to the smaller... the smaller will do the dance to let her know he is submitting so stop being him up lol. I would buy a breeder net and stick “her” in there. She forgot where her territory is too so that will probably happen to your “female” as well.

Thanks for the suggestion, I had debated trying to isolate somehow, but haven't got anything to do so! It's promising that this does go on for a while, mine has only been 24hours so hopefully it'll sort itself

 

[Peace River]

I would like to jump on helping as well. I recently had or may still have the same issue. My slightly bigger one actually did damage on all the smaller ones fins. Just like your smaller clown... it couldn’t come out in the open without the bigger chasing it off. Once I realized okay the smaller one has taken a beating... i actually bought a breeder net and put the bigger one in there for 2 1/2 to 3 days. Let her out last night and it’s a huge different. She is way less aggressive towards him. She will bump him here and there but when she gets close to the smaller... the smaller will do the dance to let her know he is submitting so stop being him up lol. I would buy a breeder net and stick “her” in there. She forgot where her territory is too so that will probably happen to your “female” as well.

Im glad to hear that this worked and IMO this was a good choice because of the damage. However IME it is not always the best first option - a breeder net or an acclimation box sometimes works and other times it resets the dominance process from the beginning when the fish are reintroduced. If there is no body damage then rearranging the aquascaping and adding additional hiding places are other options.

 

[JoshO]

Im glad to hear that this worked and IMO this was a good choice because of the damage. However IME it is not always the best first option - a breeder net or an acclimation box sometimes works and other times it resets the dominance process from the beginning when the fish are reintroduced. If there is no body damage then rearranging the aquascaping and adding additional hiding places are other options.

As they are quarantine I have moved the PVC pipes around to provide different hiding spots than the fish has been using. There is no visible damage yet, however the "male" does seem to have faded fins, they've gone slightly transparent

 

[Aaron Soliz]

Thanks for the suggestion, I had debated trying to isolate somehow, but haven't got anything to do so! It's promising that this does go on for a while, mine has only been 24hours so hopefully it'll sort itself

Of course. Just be paying attention to damages on your clown. Once fins are being nipped and not just one, most of them and the fish is kinda nervous to come out of a corner... it’s time to take action. In my opinion.