Butterfly bloated stomach.

iReefer12 · Jun 4, 2015

I've had this Mitratus Butterfky for almost one year.

He's seemed perfectly healthy up until a few days ago when I noticed his stomach slightly bloated, it then became more noticeable on the 2nd day, and the last 2 days has stayed fairly consistent in bloated-ness.

He still swims fine and still has a ferocious appetite, I'm concerned this could be dropsy or some kind of kidney disease.

Any thoughts on what this could be.

As a start, I began feeding some antibacterial food to see if it helped at all, no signs of improvement.

Humblefish · Jun 4, 2015

Could be Dropsy. Sometimes Hexamita (i.e. hole-in-the-head disease) can also cause dropsy. Notice any white stringy poop coming out of the fish?

Could also just be constipation (more common in fish than people realize, especially in fish that are primarily carnivorous.)

iReefer12 · Jun 4, 2015

Not seen any white stringy poo, it's normally quite brown, and like a thin cloud? Is that a normal poop?

Hopefully he's just constipated, I did read that, but he just looks so fat, it's hard to imagine it's caused by that.

Humblefish · Jun 4, 2015

iReefer12 said:
Not seen any white stringy poo, it's normally quite brown, and like a thin cloud? Is that a normal poop?

Hopefully he's just constipated, I did read that, but he just looks so fat, it's hard to imagine it's caused by that.

You might try soaking his food with kanamycin (ex. Seachem Kanaplex); you will also need to use something like Seachem Focus to bind the antibiotic to the food and prevent it from leaching into the water column.

Kanamycin had two upsides in your particular situation - it's a wide spectrum antibiotic that also lists diarrhea as a possible side effect.

If you can get him to eat a peeled boiled pea (I know, hard to get a butterfly to do that), that might help if it's constipation. Also, dosing Epsom salt (1 tablespoon per 5 gals) can serve as a mild laxative.

iReefer12 · Jul 7, 2015

A month on, and the butterfly still has a bloated stomach.

It looks like it's starting to effect his swimming a bit now. If I can catch him and move him to the hospital tank, what should I treat him with?

Humblefish · Jul 7, 2015

iReefer12 said:
A month on, and the butterfly still has a bloated stomach.

It looks like it's starting to effect his swimming a bit now. If I can catch him and move him to the hospital tank, what should I treat him with?

You can try both Epsom salt & Kanamycin, in conjunction.

However if it's a month on, I strongly suspect it could be a swimmer bladder issue. You could use something like an 18 gauge needle (available at some pharmacies) to attempt "needling". However, as I'm sure you can guess this is a very invasive/risky procedure to do on a relatively small fish. More info in the links below.

http://www.reefdup.com/2014/01/05/swim-bladder-inflammation-in-fish/

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/12/01/...s-simple-procedure-correct-downswimming-fish/

iReefer12 · Jul 7, 2015

I tried kanamycin on the food with focus for the past couple of weeks that didn't seem to do anything.

I haven't tried Epsom salt. I may try move him to the hospital tank and can try that.

Think it is time to try venting the swim bladder but..... That looks like it would be extremely hard for me to do without messing something up

iReefer12 · Jul 7, 2015

I don't see on the instructions, but wouldn't you want to use a sedative?

Humblefish · Jul 7, 2015

iReefer12 said:
I don't see on the instructions, but wouldn't you want to use a sedative?

It's more doable on larger fish, such as a sea bass.

You can use 25 ppm of MS-222 (see link below), but do not overdose or it will kill the fish.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/11/fish

Below is a video alprazo posted a while back. In the video he demonstrates tube feeding, but it is also useful for you to see how a fish reacts to MS-222. And how to successfully "bring the fish back" post treatment.

iReefer12 · Jul 7, 2015

Great video. What's tube feeding btw. Off topic I know.

I'm trying to pluck up the courage to do this.

Humblefish · Jul 7, 2015

iReefer12 said:
Great video. What's tube feeding btw. Off topic I know.

I'm trying to pluck up the courage to do this.

It's a way of force feeding a sick fish that refuses to eat.

iReefer12 · Jul 8, 2015

I fed peas today. All my fish loved them surprisingly, and I saw the mitratus eat a lot of the mushed peas. Will continue feeding those for a couple days and see if it can possibly help. Will keep you posted.

iReefer12 · Jul 8, 2015

Okay I just left the fish room and he's looking a bit worse tonight, looks like he's having a harder time swimming and is closer to the surface.

Not sure if the peas had anything to do with this or not, I did see him swim down to the cleaner shrimp and spend some time at his station, wonder what this means.

I've decided that tomorrow I will have to do this procedure, I can't take seeing him suffer any longer.

I have most of the equipment that I need. The only thing I'm missing is an insulin needle. I was just looking to see if I can buy these at cvs but a few online posts say that it's, not illegal but frowned upon to buy needles and syringes if you haven't got a diabetes prescription?

To save the hassle of this could I use a very fine needle from a sewing kit?

Cleo642 · Jul 8, 2015

Humblefish said:
You can try both Epsom salt & Kanamycin, in conjunction.

However if it's a month on, I strongly suspect it could be a swimmer bladder issue. You could use something like an 18 gauge needle (available at some pharmacies) to attempt "needling". However, as I'm sure you can guess this is a very invasive/risky procedure to do on a relatively small fish. More info in the links below.

http://www.reefdup.com/2014/01/05/swim-bladder-inflammation-in-fish/

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/12/01/...s-simple-procedure-correct-downswimming-fish/

Are you a vet, sir? Just wondering. If so, it's cool to have a doctor in the house. Lol.

Humblefish · Jul 9, 2015

iReefer12 said:
I have most of the equipment that I need. The only thing I'm missing is an insulin needle. I was just looking to see if I can buy these at cvs but a few online posts say that it's, not illegal but frowned upon to buy needles and syringes if you haven't got a diabetes prescription?

People go into CVS all the time and buy dispensing needles. No prescription required. If you're embarrassed, print out one of those articles (in the links above) to show them in case they ask you what it's for. A local vet (I'm not one BTW

) might be sympathetic and just give you a needle if you show them the article.

You can also buy dispensing needles on Amazon, but that might get you put on some kind of watch list (kidding): http://www.amazon.com/s?rh=n:318120011,p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:5738908011

Scolacanthop · Jul 9, 2015

not sure your state law, but in CA pharmacist more likely will not sell to you if not prove to use for medical purposes. you can try!!!

iReefer12 · Jul 9, 2015

So I shouldn't try to do this procedure with a sewing needle? It looks like the sewing needle would be smaller diameter than the syringe needle.

Humblefish · Jul 9, 2015

iReefer12 said:
So I shouldn't try to do this procedure with a sewing needle? It looks like the sewing needle would be smaller diameter than the syringe needle.

You can try. The advantage of using a syringe is you can draw back to remove the air. If he's eating the peas, I would give that a couple more days. I wouldn't needle him until I felt it was absolutely necessary and had nothing left to lose by trying.