Butterfly dead, but why?!

Eienna · Jun 20, 2016

My newly acquired Klein's butterfly was eating great, even just yesterday...until yesterday night. She wasn't interested in dinner. I figured she just felt a little off because I had dosed prazipro, along with a water change. This morning I found her dying. I would have blamed velvet for it to happen so suddenly, but I don't see the telltale powder. All the young Mollies in the tank are behaving normally. I can't test params right now, but no one else seems affected at all, and salinity was on point yesterday.

These photos are a bit off in color from the flash, but maybe you guys can help me figure out what happened.

Eienna · Jun 20, 2016

I know she didn't have the dark splotches before, and it's not ammonia because I had just changed water when she started to go downhill and she definitely didn't have them then. Septicemia, maybe?

Eienna · Jun 20, 2016

Wait, could it be that she was cyanide-fished? She didn't act like it...though she was repeating a swimming pattern over and over the last couple of days.

eliramos · Jun 20, 2016

Humblefish · Jun 20, 2016

Connecting the dots from this thread and this one: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-on-butterfly-hypo-or-copper.253778/

It's likely your fish died due to ich, velvet or flukes. Velvet is very possible, as dinospores will often invade the gills first and the fish dies due to asphyxiation before visible physical symptoms show up on the body.

Eienna · Jun 20, 2016

Humblefish said:
Connecting the dots from this thread and this one: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-on-butterfly-hypo-or-copper.253778/

It's likely your fish died due to ich, velvet or flukes. Velvet is very possible, as dinospores will often invade the gills first and the fish dies due to asphyxiation before visible physical symptoms show up on the body.

That would make sense...I started to treat with cupramine but she stopped flashing after the half-dose you're supposed to start with, so I changed plans and water and opted for the prazipro to focus on deworming. If velvet is indeed the case, and with the sudden death involved I would tend to lean that way, I know where my fatal mistake was.

Humblefish · Jun 20, 2016

Eienna said:
That would make sense...I started to treat with cupramine but she stopped flashing after the half-dose you're supposed to start with, so I changed plans and water and opted for the prazipro to focus on deworming. If velvet is indeed the case, and with the sudden death involved I would tend to lean that way, I know where my fatal mistake was.

Next time combine Cupramine and Prazipro if faced with an emergency situation. Just watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water).

Eienna · Jun 22, 2016

Humblefish said:
Next time combine Cupramine and Prazipro if faced with an emergency situation. Just watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water).

I was not aware that those medications could be combined. Thanks for the info!

Eienna · Dec 28, 2016

I think I finally figured out what happened to my butterfly. I mixed up a fresh batch of saltwater to be ready for my Christmas present, and decided to test it (the new qt water) before releasing the fish. Hoooly cow. KH, calcium and magnesium were all far too low. KH was down around 6, and I didn't even want to think about what the pH probably was at that number. If that's what happened while my butterfly was in there, she would not have been able to handle it. The mollies can, since they are so adaptable to different environments, but I'd be willing to bet that a true marine fish cannot.

Moral of the story, while a big tank can be adjusted before things get bad, a smaller tank such as a 10g quarantine will be hit hard if the chemistry of a water change is off. If possible, test your new water before changing. Also, try not to use salt that has been turned into chunks by moisture. It apparently will not mix up properly.

Eienna · Dec 28, 2016

I have a correction to make. After finding out that the water was low in the three elements, I tried to fix it and ended up spiking them off the map. Then I put in half new water, tested again, and acclimated the fish. He ate the next day, but then suddenly stopped, so I checked the alk again and it had spiked back up to 13. Changed half with a new bag of salt and he appears to have resumed eating.

Humblefish · Dec 28, 2016

Fish are usually not affected by KH, calcium or magnesium. However, if the water was outside of acceptable pH range (7.8-8.5) then that is a problem.

melypr1985 · Dec 28, 2016

Humblefish said:
Fish are usually not affected by KH, calcium or magnesium. However, if the water was outside of acceptable pH range (7.8-8.5) then that is a problem.

Completely agree.

Eienna · Dec 28, 2016

I don't currently have a pH test because it is my understanding that if the KH is in line and it's properly oxygenated, your pH will be in a safe range. I don't even want to guess at what number that was under the circumstances. MAYBE the buffer I added even messed with that; I'm learning that at least one of them can, and the ingredients aren't listed on mine.

Even if the pH at that point would have been okay for most fish, the lost butterfly and the new tang still very young and fresh from the store.

In any case, the little tang has his appetite back and is doing well.