Buying known sick fish

Ocelaris · Jan 29, 2017

So I'm picking up some dry goods from a fellow reefer who is exiting the hobby after a loss of a number of his fish due to disease. He is looking to rehome the a cirrhilabrus roseafascia, melanurus and checkerboard wrasse. I'm happy to have the rose banded fairy wrasse and melanurus, but the checkerboard has me worried as I only have a 110 gallor 5' tank, which is too small. However the bigger question is quarantine, will my normal routine suffice or should these fish be avoided at all cost?

I usually do a 1 month quarantine with tank transfer method and api general cure (praziquantel/metronidazole). Is this sufficient for fish that may have had velvet? The actual disease is unknown but it was a quick down turn for most of the (4?) fish that passed away.

Thanks

cmcoker · Jan 29, 2017

TTM does not work on velvet.. Since it is unknown, I would use Copper, either copper safe or Copper power since it's been reported to be easier on the fish than Cupramine, and wrasses can be sensitive to being medicated. And copper will treat ich and velvet.
If you are using the general cure prophylacticly I would consider doing that after the copper and not mixing meds if you don't have to

Ocelaris · Jan 29, 2017

Thanks, I guess what I'm still confused with is the life cycle of various diseases. So for example these fish obviously weathered the disease and survived, so are they now carriers or given a good quarantine do they become clear from the disease. I don't want to go through the effort of quarantine and then introduce a fish into my clean aquarium if they're going to infect my healthy fish.

It would be really helps to have a chart somewhere to talk about life cycles of various diseases like we have for ich with the tank transfer method. Because if we don't know the transmission method and if there is a dormancy how are we to know that if a fish has lived through an outbreak it's permanently marked as a carrier?

melypr1985 · Jan 29, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Thanks, I guess what I'm still confused with is the life cycle of various diseases. So for example these fish obviously weathered the disease and survived, so are they now carriers or given a good quarantine do they become clear from the disease. I don't want to go through the effort of quarantine and then introduce a fish into my clean aquarium if they're going to infect my healthy fish.

It would be really helps to have a chart somewhere to talk about life cycles of various diseases like we have for ich with the tank transfer method. Because if we don't know the transmission method and if there is a dormancy how are we to know that if a fish has lived through an outbreak it's permanently marked as a carrier?

Yes these fish will be carriers of whatever killed the rest. Treat them with copper to cover your bases and using General Cure is a good idea as well. In this case a chart isn't needed... if the fish were in a tank with losses like this, then you are guaranteed that the fish were exposed and even if they didn't die, are carriers. Guaranteed.

It's very nice that you are willing to take on these fish and heal them! Props to you and best of luck with it

Brew12 · Jan 29, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Thanks, I guess what I'm still confused with is the life cycle of various diseases. So for example these fish obviously weathered the disease and survived, so are they now carriers or given a good quarantine do they become clear from the disease. I don't want to go through the effort of quarantine and then introduce a fish into my clean aquarium if they're going to infect my healthy fish.

It would be really helps to have a chart somewhere to talk about life cycles of various diseases like we have for ich with the tank transfer method. Because if we don't know the transmission method and if there is a dormancy how are we to know that if a fish has lived through an outbreak it's permanently marked as a carrier?

Ich and Velvet are both parasites with fairly well known lifecycles. A fish who survives an infestation of these parasites can develop an immunity to them. This immunity prevents the parasite from feeding as effectively, meaning it does less harm to the fish and reproduces more slowly. This is why the visible signs of the parasite go away.
Treatment with CP or copper can kill the parasite in various stages of its life cycle. Once the life cycle of the parasite is broken there is no risk of the spread of infection to other fish.

Ocelaris · Jan 29, 2017

Thanks, I've always avoided copper, but I guess this is my first foray into it if that's the way to cover my bases. I'll have to see if I can get more details about the disease.

For corals and live rock, obviously can't go in the same quarantine with fish, but can they carry non parasitic diseases? Like I know that ich can't be carried on corals because they can't complete the life cycle, but are there other diseases that can lie dormant on coral/rock? Basically it's a tear down and he's offering both coral encrusted on rock and fish, and I don't think I'll be able to quarantine both at the same time.

4FordFamily · Jan 29, 2017

melypr1985 said:
Yes these fish will be carriers of whatever killed the rest. Treat them with copper to cover your bases and using General Cure is a good idea as well. In this case a chart isn't needed... if the fish were in a tank with losses like this, then you are guaranteed that the fish were exposed and even if they didn't die, are carriers. Guaranteed.

It's very nice that you are willing to take on these fish and heal them! Props to you and best of luck with it

Brew12 said:
Ich and Velvet are both parasites with fairly well known lifecycles. A fish who survives an infestation of these parasites can develop an immunity to them. This immunity prevents the parasite from feeding as effectively, meaning it does less harm to the fish and reproduces more slowly. This is why the visible signs of the parasite go away.
Treatment with CP or copper can kill the parasite in various stages of its life cycle. Once the life cycle of the parasite is broken there is no risk of the spread of infection to other fish.

Agree on all fronts as well!

melypr1985 · Jan 29, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Like I know that ich can't be carried on corals because they can't complete the life cycle, but are there other diseases that can lie dormant on coral/rock?

Actually ick and velvet can both be carried in on coral skeletons, rocks they are attached to and even inverts like crabs, snails and shrimp. These should all go into a coral/invert QT for 76 days to be sure nothing but beauty is coming in with them.

Ocelaris · Jan 29, 2017

If you can get through ich life cycle in 2 weeks with the tank transfer method, why wouldn't you be able to apply that to the corals? If I have to do more than a month quarantine for corals and fish separately its going to be too much for my resources. I just have one quarantine system (and alternate tank for ttm. Sounds like I need to focus on one or the other.

Brew12 · Jan 29, 2017

Ocelaris said:
If you can get through ich life cycle in 2 weeks with the tank transfer method, why wouldn't you be able to apply that to the corals? If I have to do more than a month quarantine for corals and fish separately its going to be too much for my resources. I just have one quarantine system (and alternate tank for ttm. Sounds like I need to focus on one or the other.

When ich is done feeding on the fish it drops off and forms as a cyst on a hard surface. TTM removes the fish from the hard surface before it can hatch.
If the hard surface is a coral or frag plug, it can take a long time to hatch. If the newly hatched ich can't find a fish to feed on within 48 hours they die and break the cycle.