Calcium acetate

[Pntbll687]

Anyone here dosing calcium acetate?

I’ve been dissolving calcium hydroxide in vinegar, then diluting with water and dosing like regular kalkwasser.

is there any reason I couldn’t dose the vinegar/calcium hydroxide mix directly without diluting?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Salifert All in One is a one part calcium and alk solution made from Calcium acetate.

The drawback is that if demand for alk is medium to high, the organic carbon dosing effect of all the acetate can be quite high and may be higher than you want.

i used a similar material for organic carbon dosing: vinegar saturated with calcium hydroxide to voide the pH drop from vinegar dosing, while not adding all that much alk and calcium.

 

[Genetics]

Anyone here dosing calcium acetate?

I’ve been dissolving calcium hydroxide in vinegar, then diluting with water and dosing like regular kalkwasser.

is there any reason I couldn’t dose the vinegar/calcium hydroxide mix directly without diluting?

I do this through my Kalk Rx. The vinegar (and now also citrate) I need gets added to the RO topoff bucket and then runs through the kalk reactor to saturate the water with calcium hydroxide.

 

[Radioactive Reefer Jay]

i used a similar material for organic carbon dosing: vinegar saturated with calcium hydroxide to voide the pH drop from vinegar dosing, while not adding all that much alk and calcium.

Hello, Randy!

I am interested on how do you do this method (kalk + vinegar).

What is the ratio of vinegar and kalk?

Dosing: amount & frequency/tank volume &coral density(mixed/lps/sps only?);

How do you keep the solution?

I'm considering to do a skimmer-less system, would it do ok?

What if I'll add calcium carbonate in the solution as a coagulant? This will make the bacteria larger thus making it more accessible to larger organisms. Is this ok?

Would white vinegar differ much from distilled vinegar?

Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am interested on how do you do this method (kalk + vinegar).

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Vinegar And Limewater To Boost Limewater Potency

Another potentially useful attribute of vinegar is that it can be used to help dissolve additional solid lime into limewater. It does this by reducing the hydroxide concentration in the limewater:

10. CH3OOH --> CH3COO- + H+

The H+ combines with OH- in the limewater:

11. H+ + OH- --> H2O

The actual dissolution of Ca(OH)2 is limited by the multiplication product of the calcium and hydroxide concentrations in the limewater as shown below:

12. Ca(OH)2 --> Ca++ + 2OH-

13. [Ca++] x [OH-] x [OH-] = 5.5 x 10-6

where [Ca++] is the concentration of calcium (in moles/L) and [OH-] is the concentration of hydroxide (in moles/L). Consequently, if you reduce the concentration of OH- via equations (10) and (11), then more Ca(OH)2 can dissolve into solution and still meet the equation (13) requirement.

This would seem like a concern, however, since losing OH- might reduce the amount of alkalinity delivered by the limewater. Luckily, this is not the case. While the OH- is temporarily reduced by the acetic acid in the vinegar, when bacteria metabolize the acetate, they release it back to the water:

14. CH3COO- + 2O2 --> CO2 + H2O + OH-

Consequently, additional solid lime can be dissolved into limewater using vinegar.

How much can be used? The more vinegar that is used, the lower the pH of both the limewater and the aquarium will be. One reasonable point to shoot for is to add about the same amount of total CO2 via the vinegar as is needed by the lime to form HCO3-. This balance is roughly matched by using three level teaspoons of solid lime per gallon of limewater, and 45 ml of vinegar per gallon of limewater. For those aquarists choosing to use vinegar in limewater, these values are a suitable starting point. Note that the pH of the limewater is still quite high, so slow dosing is usually required.

What kind of vinegar should be used? Luckily, cheap distilled white vinegar is likely the best. More expensive flavored and colored vinegars, such as red wine vinegar, will deliver other unnecessary organic molecules to the aquarium, and are best avoided.

 

[Radioactive Reefer Jay]

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Vinegar And Limewater To Boost Limewater Potency

Another potentially useful attribute of vinegar is that it can be used to help dissolve additional solid lime into limewater. It does this by reducing the hydroxide concentration in the limewater:

10. CH3OOH --> CH3COO- + H+

The H+ combines with OH- in the limewater:

11. H+ + OH- --> H2O

The actual dissolution of Ca(OH)2 is limited by the multiplication product of the calcium and hydroxide concentrations in the limewater as shown below:

12. Ca(OH)2 --> Ca++ + 2OH-

13. [Ca++] x [OH-] x [OH-] = 5.5 x 10-6

where [Ca++] is the concentration of calcium (in moles/L) and [OH-] is the concentration of hydroxide (in moles/L). Consequently, if you reduce the concentration of OH- via equations (10) and (11), then more Ca(OH)2 can dissolve into solution and still meet the equation (13) requirement.

This would seem like a concern, however, since losing OH- might reduce the amount of alkalinity delivered by the limewater. Luckily, this is not the case. While the OH- is temporarily reduced by the acetic acid in the vinegar, when bacteria metabolize the acetate, they release it back to the water:

14. CH3COO- + 2O2 --> CO2 + H2O + OH-

Consequently, additional solid lime can be dissolved into limewater using vinegar.

How much can be used? The more vinegar that is used, the lower the pH of both the limewater and the aquarium will be. One reasonable point to shoot for is to add about the same amount of total CO2 via the vinegar as is needed by the lime to form HCO3-. This balance is roughly matched by using three level teaspoons of solid lime per gallon of limewater, and 45 ml of vinegar per gallon of limewater. For those aquarists choosing to use vinegar in limewater, these values are a suitable starting point. Note that the pH of the limewater is still quite high, so slow dosing is usually required.

What kind of vinegar should be used? Luckily, cheap distilled white vinegar is likely the best. More expensive flavored and colored vinegars, such as red wine vinegar, will deliver other unnecessary organic molecules to the aquarium, and are best avoided.

Thank you for your reply!

I'm planning to use white vinegar as it is easily accessible, cheap, and cleaner vs other variants.


BTW, I found a thread in a forum (https://www.carolinafishtalk.com/threads/calcium-acetate-may-want-to-sticky-this.71169/).
So, this answers my questions:
1: the ratio of vinegar to kalk is 60ml:1tsp;
2: the dose is 0.5ml-2ml/gal/day;

Questions unanswered are:
How do you keep this solution? (shelf life, container);
Is it feasible to add calcium carbonate to the solution as a coagulant (possibly for bacterial-for it to be easily accessible to corals)? Or I should dose it separately?;
Is skimmer-less system feasible? (this tank will be in my bedroom-skimmer smells)

Sorry for the battery of questions!

Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Skimmerless systems can work, but are not my preference. They export organics and aerate.

Calcium carbonate is ok in kalkwasser, but I would T usually recommend it as you may need to keep it stirring, which encourages CO2 to enter the mix and reduces its potency.

Stability is like any kalkwasser. Don’t stir and reduce air exposure.

 

[jason2459]

I'm planning to use white vinegar

Distilled white vinegar or just white vinegar? There usually is a difference. Check the percentage concentration and the purity may not be great for the white vinegar used as a cleaning solution.