Calcium and Alk additives?
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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There are many different brands or DIY for many different types of calcium and alkalinity additions.
The first step is to decide what method you want to use.
Try starting here:
The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
The first step is to decide what method you want to use.
Try starting here:
The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
While that is one way, I think you are combining the diy two part with kalk. And actually you can use both at the same time.
But as I understand kalk you setup a drip system and just drip it.
Whereas with the diy two part you first do the one time adjustment, then dose equal parts calcium and alk when alk drops down, and after using up a gallon of calcium and alk you dose magnesium.
what I did on one tank is add picking lime to top off water while still doing the diy two part
my .02
Randy Holmes-Farley
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That's the easiest way, but you can use it to boost alk slowly too. Just not to boost calcium more than a few ppm, because alk gets too high.
i use KH plus & Ca Plus powder from korallen-zucht because this is the only thing available in my country... if i was in the states i would use the BRS 2 parts i guess.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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You base the amount of calcium hydroxide in the ATO water or the amount of saturated limewater to add based on trial and error, using the tank alk as a guide (pretty much as you would any alk additive).
I designed the BRS DIY two part. Yes, it us a fine way to go, as are commercial versions like B-ionic.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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:thumb:
Good luck.
Good luck.
mike_dani
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I have been using a new set of products by a company named ReefGrow and have found their supplements to be awesome. I have had amazing growth with my SPS, ZOAs and my LPS like Duncan's hammer and frogspawn. I have also been beta testing two new products if theirs named Algae-Oust to help control my Dino's and Cyano. I really like this one for many reasons first the algae and cyano are gone and my skimmer produces a much browner and thicker skimate. Also it makes my SPS and ZOAs really polyp out. I just started with their amino acids and am liking what I see with them, coloration is improving and we will see.
Back to the calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium I used to get good growth for me and my locals get but with theirs I dose less volume and have seen my growth at least double.
Here are two pictures of the same birdsnest taken 6 weeks apart
Back to the calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium I used to get good growth for me and my locals get but with theirs I dose less volume and have seen my growth at least double.
Here are two pictures of the same birdsnest taken 6 weeks apart
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Hi mike_dani,
Before I proceed to provide a counterpoint to your post, can you please identify any relationship you have with this company and all free products you have received from them? Did they suggest you post your comments?
Before I proceed to provide a counterpoint to your post, can you please identify any relationship you have with this company and all free products you have received from them? Did they suggest you post your comments?
mike_dani
Well-Known Member
Hey Randy great question.
My relationship with ReefGrow is a business to consumer, me being the consumer of course. The owner had been trying to get me to use his products for a couple of years and I was skeptical due to all the Jesus juices that we spend tons of money on. I will also say it was very convenient that the owner lives an hour and one half away so I have had plenty talks with him. Now if he wants to hire me I will go work for them tomorrow. Lol
Now as far as free products, I was given one 8oz bottle of their Algae-Oust as a beta tester and one free Amino Acid as a beta tester. Nothing was asked in return other than I take photos and document the changes I have seen in my reef and provide that to the company when I finished using the product. I have finished using the Algae product and in turn I have purchased one from them.
Now onto my tank. I have had many ups and downs over the last four years and decided I would try something new so two weeks before thanksgiving 2014 I drained my 300 and started all over again using nothing that was alive. Here it's February and I have SPS, LPS, Zoas, and Clams growing and thriving. I can only attribute this to the products and religious tank care that I have employed to work for me.
Please I would love to here your counterpoint Sir as you are highly respected as an expert in my book and thank you for your time.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Thanks for the info.
As to these products, the calcium, alkalinity and magnesium products seem similar to many marketed products.
The calcium product looks to be anhydrous calcium chloride.
The magnesium product looks to be magnesium chloride and sulfate.
The buffer is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) sodium bicarbonate (baked baking soda), and boric acid/borate.
They are all fine, although I wouldn't generally put borate into a buffer for a reef aquarium. I don't know how much they add, so maybe it is not too much. Seachem Marine Buffer has a similar formula, but has too much borate for a reef aquarium.
I don't have any reason to think these supplements would help corals grow any better than similar products from other suppliers or a DIY. The growth of corals won't depend on the source of the calcium, magnesium, or alkalinity, although the final pH or alkalinity may have a big effect.
They make some claims about them that doesn't really make sense, such as:
"Unlike other competitors products, all ReefGrow® products can and should be used daily for maximum growth. And can be used within mere minutes of each other."
I have no idea why they'd make that first claim (many are used daily if not more frequently), and the second is true of most any additive.
"Often times cheaper salts tend to have extremely high levels of magnesium, as low magnesium levels can cause pH levels to plummet as well as interfere with available calcium levels. "
There's no connection between magnesium and pH in seawater, except unless one is unable to maintain alkalinity due to low magnesium.
"Average natural seawater total alkalinity levels tend to be at or around 9.63 dKH or 172 ppm. "
Not sure where they got that, but it is way off. Average seawater alkalinity is a bit below 7 dKH, with an average around 6.4 dKH.
Their discussion of pH at their site:
Buffer Pro | ReefGrow®
"ReefGrow® helps combat this in two ways; education of proper chemistry and our unique blend of not only carbonates and bicarbonate in perfect balance but also our blend of boric acids give you both perfect pH as well as perfect pKa.
That seems to suggest that using their buffer will give a "perfect pH". That totally ignores the primary reason people have low pH, which is elevated home air CO2 levels.
As to these products, the calcium, alkalinity and magnesium products seem similar to many marketed products.
The calcium product looks to be anhydrous calcium chloride.
The magnesium product looks to be magnesium chloride and sulfate.
The buffer is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) sodium bicarbonate (baked baking soda), and boric acid/borate.
They are all fine, although I wouldn't generally put borate into a buffer for a reef aquarium. I don't know how much they add, so maybe it is not too much. Seachem Marine Buffer has a similar formula, but has too much borate for a reef aquarium.
I don't have any reason to think these supplements would help corals grow any better than similar products from other suppliers or a DIY. The growth of corals won't depend on the source of the calcium, magnesium, or alkalinity, although the final pH or alkalinity may have a big effect.
They make some claims about them that doesn't really make sense, such as:
"Unlike other competitors products, all ReefGrow® products can and should be used daily for maximum growth. And can be used within mere minutes of each other."
I have no idea why they'd make that first claim (many are used daily if not more frequently), and the second is true of most any additive.
"Often times cheaper salts tend to have extremely high levels of magnesium, as low magnesium levels can cause pH levels to plummet as well as interfere with available calcium levels. "
There's no connection between magnesium and pH in seawater, except unless one is unable to maintain alkalinity due to low magnesium.
"Average natural seawater total alkalinity levels tend to be at or around 9.63 dKH or 172 ppm. "
Not sure where they got that, but it is way off. Average seawater alkalinity is a bit below 7 dKH, with an average around 6.4 dKH.
Their discussion of pH at their site:
Buffer Pro | ReefGrow®
"ReefGrow® helps combat this in two ways; education of proper chemistry and our unique blend of not only carbonates and bicarbonate in perfect balance but also our blend of boric acids give you both perfect pH as well as perfect pKa.
That seems to suggest that using their buffer will give a "perfect pH". That totally ignores the primary reason people have low pH, which is elevated home air CO2 levels.
Deblack3
New Member
Randy,
I am using a Geosreef Calcium reactor in addition some kalkwasser to bump up Ph in my ATO (Mrs. Wage Pickling Lime about 8 teaspoons per 5 gallon). I do have a question, I have heard 12 as reaching Ph saturation. Does that mean that I can get to a min amount of the Lime Powder that gets me to 12 Ph and after that saturation is met, anymore powered I add will not raise the Ph at all? Currently I just set my Calcium Reactor up to support the Tanks Calcium and Alk levels and then get ATO kalkwasser to dose my Ph up. I have read that Mrs. Wages Pickling lime does not do a whole lot for Ca and Alk but does give a decent Ph bump. However with the addition to the CO2 provide by my reactor to the Tank I differently find I need something to get a Ph lift. Any comment would be greatly appreciated.
I am using a Geosreef Calcium reactor in addition some kalkwasser to bump up Ph in my ATO (Mrs. Wage Pickling Lime about 8 teaspoons per 5 gallon). I do have a question, I have heard 12 as reaching Ph saturation. Does that mean that I can get to a min amount of the Lime Powder that gets me to 12 Ph and after that saturation is met, anymore powered I add will not raise the Ph at all? Currently I just set my Calcium Reactor up to support the Tanks Calcium and Alk levels and then get ATO kalkwasser to dose my Ph up. I have read that Mrs. Wages Pickling lime does not do a whole lot for Ca and Alk but does give a decent Ph bump. However with the addition to the CO2 provide by my reactor to the Tank I differently find I need something to get a Ph lift. Any comment would be greatly appreciated.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Limewater plus a CaCO3/CO2 reactor is a good combination!
I use only limewater for my aquarium, but it is not an SPS tank (although I have had some SPS in the past). The main users in my tank are coralline algae, a biggish clam, and LPS corals such as bubble corals.
Adding 2% of the tank volume daily in saturated limewater adds about 2.2 dKH of alkalinity and 16 ppm of calcium. If that is not enough (and that is roughly your evaporation rate), then limewater in an ATO likely won't fully meet the demand. It doesn't for a heavy SPS tank. But as you note, it adds some and boost pH.
pH is not a good gauge of limewater potency. Even 25% saturated limewater (that is 1/4 of full potency) has a pH of about 12. But adding full strength limewater (pH about 12.5) will have 4 times the effect on tank pH.
I use only limewater for my aquarium, but it is not an SPS tank (although I have had some SPS in the past). The main users in my tank are coralline algae, a biggish clam, and LPS corals such as bubble corals.
Adding 2% of the tank volume daily in saturated limewater adds about 2.2 dKH of alkalinity and 16 ppm of calcium. If that is not enough (and that is roughly your evaporation rate), then limewater in an ATO likely won't fully meet the demand. It doesn't for a heavy SPS tank. But as you note, it adds some and boost pH.
pH is not a good gauge of limewater potency. Even 25% saturated limewater (that is 1/4 of full potency) has a pH of about 12. But adding full strength limewater (pH about 12.5) will have 4 times the effect on tank pH.
Deblack3
New Member
Thanks Randy,
That answers a lot and seems I am on proper coarse. What I have read is 2 teaspoons of Mrs Wages Pickling lime per gallon. I was actually trying to be a bit conservative. I think I am going to start on my next mix at the 2 teaspoons cause the conservative value doesn't get me quite the Ph boost I'd like to get to. Currently my Ca is around 440 and Alk is near 9 but my Ph is just at 8 during the day with lights and drops to about 7.9 with lights out at night. Id kind of like to get the Ph about 8.1 or so to 8.0
That answers a lot and seems I am on proper coarse. What I have read is 2 teaspoons of Mrs Wages Pickling lime per gallon. I was actually trying to be a bit conservative. I think I am going to start on my next mix at the 2 teaspoons cause the conservative value doesn't get me quite the Ph boost I'd like to get to. Currently my Ca is around 440 and Alk is near 9 but my Ph is just at 8 during the day with lights and drops to about 7.9 with lights out at night. Id kind of like to get the Ph about 8.1 or so to 8.0
Randy Holmes-Farley
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As long as the pH and alkalinity are not too high, raising it to the full 2 tsp per gallon of fresh water seems a fine idea.
