Calcium dropping alk stable

[Clownfishy]

Many thanks for the information @Tmmste
I think I had not realised how much Calcium I needed to dose to make up the amount I had lost. Another day of dosing 160ml of Calcium Chloride and 28ml of Soda Ash and my testing is reading -
Calcium 405
Alk 10.7 DKH

It has taken a heck of a lot of Calcium Chloride to get to this point but I am hoping I can maintain it now and start to reduce the Calcium dosing down to the levels of the Soda Ash dosing.

I will report back and many thanks for all the replies.

 

[Tmmste]

Many thanks for the information @Tmmste
I think I had not realised how much Calcium I needed to dose to make up the amount I had lost. Another day of dosing 160ml of Calcium Chloride and 28ml of Soda Ash and my testing is reading -
Calcium 405
Alk 10.7 DKH

It has taken a heck of a lot of Calcium Chloride to get to this point but I am hoping I can maintain it now and start to reduce the Calcium dosing down to the levels of the Soda Ash dosing.

I will report back and many thanks for all the replies.

Well your skimmer may also "consume" calcium. Each 250ml skimmate contains 0.1gr calcium (1 liter = +-420ppm calcium = 0,42gr). And there are more variables (tank wellbeing, coral added) I too use this 2-part with sodium hydroxide.. Ca/Mg/Sr/K I correct in 1 go via the ato (measure and dump all powders in the vessil).. same for kH/I/B/F. When the parameters are good you will be dosing exactly the same amounts of the kH & Ca mix and your parameters will remain stable. If Ca keeps on dropping have a look if you parameters remain stable with some calciumhydroxide in your ato (this is dosed in the ratio 20ppm Ca per 2.8 kH).. if kH remains stable and Ca still drops.. something fissy is going on. Good luck.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Many thanks for the information @Tmmste
I think I had not realised how much Calcium I needed to dose to make up the amount I had lost. .

Which is why I generally recommend that folks dose the amount of calcium that is proportional to the alk decline they are seeing, rather than waiting for calcium to appear to decline, because by that point, you’ll be adding a lot, probably the same total as if you’d been dosing equal parts all along.

 

[Clownfishy]

Which is why I generally recommend that folks dose the amount of calcium that is proportional to the alk decline they are seeing, rather than waiting for calcium to appear to decline, because by that point, you’ll be adding a lot, probably the same total as if you’d been dosing equal parts all along.

Thats the weird thing, I was dosing equal parts for some time and only started seeing a drop in Calcium and not Alk when I changed my salt from Reef Crystals to H2Ocean Pro. It was at the same time my pH went from an average of 7.9 to 8.3 - 8.4. I re-read your article on the two part (which is awesome by the way) and you do clearly state that a lot of Calcium maybe required. I suspect where I have gone wrong is not fully appreciating how much Calcium I needed to add. I was quite worried at first dosing 4 times the amount of calcium than alk!! Still, looks like I am making progress as I tested the calcium this morning just after it had finished dosing and I am seeing an increase in Calcium to 415 and a decrease in Alk to 9.6. I have increased my Alk dosing by 2ml and decreased my Calcium by 30ml so I will test again after tonight's dosing of -
Calcium 30ml
Alk 15ml

I believe I should be at equal parts very soon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Have you measured calcium in your new salt? Lower calcium in the mix is the biggest reason for needing extra calcium long term.

You are not dosing nitrate are you? That boosts alk but not calcium, seeming to result in higher need for calcium.

 

[Clownfishy]

Have you measured calcium in your new salt? Lower calcium in the mix is the biggest reason for needing extra calcium long term.

You are not dosing nitrate are you? That boosts alk but not calcium, seeming to result in higher need for calcium.

Will measure the new salt this weekend when I do a water change but it reports it is 400-420.
Not dosing Nitrate

 

[Clownfishy]

Just wanted to close this thread to summarise the solution for those that come across it in the future (I hate threads that never have a conclusion!)

Cause Of Drop In Calcium
I am still not sure why my Calcium suddenly dropped but the the most obvious was the change of saltmix from Reef Crystals measuring 500ppm and H2Ocean Pro measuring 425ppm. I would also conclude that moving my pH from 7.90 to above 8.30 meant corals took up far more calcium although I cannot understand why the same was not true of Alkalinity which remained high.

Boosting Calcium
The biggest mistake I made was not realising how much extra Calcium would be needed to move Calcium upwards. I was to worried about dosing too much more than the Alkalinity dosing. I started with dosing twice as much and had assumed this would be enough. It turned out that I needed to dose was 4 times the amount of Calcium than I was dosing in Alkalinity before I started to see a sustainable increase in Calcium. Therefore, I wasted a lot of time not being more aggressive in my dosing.

Summary
Randy does state in his two part article that a lot of Calcium may be needed to get the level to where you want it and this is certainly true in my case. I now have the Calcium levels in the aquarium at the levels very close to that of H2Ocean Pro saltmix so I will maintain them there so water changes do not bounce these levels higher/lower. I just need to lower my Alkalinity a little to achieve the same.

A big shout out to everyone who helped me with this issue, its very much appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would also conclude that moving my pH from 7.90 to above 8.30 meant corals took up far more calcium although I cannot understand why the same was not true of Alkalinity which remained high.

That possibility can be ruled out. There's no way to take up substantial calcium and not alkalinity.

 

[Clownfishy]

Just when I thought I had solved the issue of low Calcium, I am observing another drop! I am now dosing double the level of Calcium than Alkalinity and this is just days after I managed to boost the Calcium levels above 400. I am not seeing any drop in Alk and will be testing the water each day at the same time so I can stabilise the level of dosing to the point where Calcium no longer drops. The only other thing that I am dosing is kalkwasser which I assumed would dose both Calcium and Alkalinity in equal proportions so should not have any effect.

 

[Tmmste]

There is no magic involved; buy another testkit (e.g. salifert) before making drastic changes. Apart from that, how precise you perform a test makes a big difference (for salifert: swirl, not shake... add powder and add drops on top of that, do not first swirl the powder... clean the nozzles.. hold them vertically.. clean the syringe and vials with rodi and dry them). Kalkwasser will, inevitably, lower kH if you add enough to supplement Ca. However, I would not be surprised if your readings are flawed. Give it a try... if you are 100% sure your measurements are correct I would correct Mg to the level you want.. correct Ca separately, keep it there with kalkwasser and let the kH drop naturally to the level you want.. and proceed with 2-part (again making sure the measuring scale is precise, measure stuff accurately, dose the stuff with 30 min interval throughout the day or something like that )

I use a plain digital timer to turn a peristaltic pump on-off.. no fancy dosing system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just when I thought I had solved the issue of low Calcium, I am observing another drop! I am now dosing double the level of Calcium than Alkalinity and this is just days after I managed to boost the Calcium levels above 400. I am not seeing any drop in Alk and will be testing the water each day at the same time so I can stabilise the level of dosing to the point where Calcium no longer drops. The only other thing that I am dosing is kalkwasser which I assumed would dose both Calcium and Alkalinity in equal proportions so should not have any effect.

Limewater (kalkwasser) actually doses slightly more calcium than alkalinity in relation to consumption, but that effect is small and is only noticeable long term.

 

[Clownfishy]

Limewater (kalkwasser) actually doses slightly more calcium than alkalinity in relation to consumption, but that effect is small and is only noticeable long term.

This gets even more weird as alkalinity is the only thing that stays consistant!!! I will report back once I have the dosing to level where calcium and alk are maintained. I am testing every day at the same time to ensure I do not obscure the testing results. Currently my daily dosing is -
26ml Alk
60ml Calcium

 

[Tmmste]

This gets even more weird as alkalinity is the only thing that stays consistant!!! I will report back once I have the dosing to level where calcium and alk are maintained. I am testing every day at the same time to ensure I do not obscure the testing results. Currently my daily dosing is -
26ml Alk
60ml Calcium

Are you reducing nitrates via denitrification (not counting carbon dosing and the bacterial bass & bound kH via the skimmer)? This may add a bit of alkalinity.. maybe something else to think about:

Did you check if you dosing pump is actually pumping x ml.. ? For that reason I moved to 2x IKS varia blue pump.. a tried a grotech tech III and 2x a jebao.. which both failed (did not hold their liquid / not pump as t all / the amounts dosed where inconsistent / not suitable for a moist sump -> rust).

 

[Clownfishy]

Not sure if this means anything but before I topped up my calcium dosing container, I noticed a brown film of gunk laying on the bottom. I have cleaned it all out and put in some new Calcium but wondering what this could be?

 

[Clownfishy]

Are you reducing nitrates via denitrification (not counting carbon dosing and the bacterial bass & bound kH via the skimmer)? This may add a bit of alkalinity.. maybe something else to think about:

Did you check if you dosing pump is actually pumping x ml.. ? For that reason I moved to 2x IKS varia blue pump.. a tried a grotech tech III and 2x a jebao.. which both failed (did not hold their liquid / not pump as t all / the amounts dosed where inconsistent / not suitable for a moist sump -> rust).

@Tmmste , re calibrated the dosing pumps twice since I have had this problem. I do carbon dose and my Nitrates are just under 1ppm.

 

[Tmmste]

@Tmmste , re calibrated the dosing pumps twice since I have had this problem. I do carbon dose and my Nitrates are just under 1ppm.

Hmm that is weird, I wouldn't change to much as I do not know what else to do. just correct Ca with powder and see how it goes from there I would say. The deposit are just some impurities, nothing to worry about although BRS recently released a few videos about how their pharmaceutical quality mixed up crystal clear... food grade is pure enough, in the end 9 out of 10 brands use less than the purest form available and all will have some inpurities. A the solution does not "have to" mix up crystal clear.

 

[Clownfishy]

Hmm that is weird, I wouldn't change to much as I do not know what else to do. just correct Ca with powder and see how it goes from there I would say. The deposit are just some impurities, nothing to worry about although BRS recently released a few videos about how their pharmaceutical quality mixed up crystal clear... food grade is pure enough, in the end 9 out of 10 brands use less than the purest form available and all will have some inpurities. A the solution does not "have to" mix up crystal clear.

Many thanks. I watched the BRS video with interest. I live in the UK so cannot buy their product and I cannot find pharmaceutical grade calcium chloride so will still with what I have for the time being.
Managed to get my calcium back to 425 and now reducing my dosing to see if it starts dropping again.

 

[jose hernandez]

wait about a hour to dose your calcium after youve dosed alk and see what happens

 

[Clownfishy]

A quick update, it seems I am getting closer to raising and maintaining my Calcium. As you can see below, I managed to get my Calcium to 425 on the 9th August, but after dosing calcium at the same as the Alk for a day or two, Calcium started to drop. What was interesting was that in the past, it would have taken 3 times the calcium dosage to bring it back up to level but this time, i doubled the dosage and within 2 days, it was back up. I slightly overshot my target but it has started to drop slightly while being back on the same dosage as Alk. Tomorrow, I am going to start dosing 50ml of Alk and 70 of Calcium and see if that keeps my calcium stable.

 

[Clownfishy]

A quick update, it seems I am getting closer to raising and maintaining my Calcium. As you can see below, I managed to get my Calcium to 425 on the 9th August, but after dosing calcium at the same as the Alk for a day or two, Calcium started to drop. What was interesting was that in the past, it would have taken 3 times the calcium dosage to bring it back up to level but this time, i doubled the dosage and within 2 days, it was back up. I slightly overshot my target but it has started to drop slightly while being back on the same dosage as Alk. Tomorrow, I am going to start dosing 50ml of Alk and 70 of Calcium and see if that keeps my calcium stable.