Calcium question

Goby-won · Jun 4, 2018

I hope I have this is the right place, so here it goes:

I am dosing Reef Fusion 1 & 2. I have had good success over the last year with what I consider acceptable growth. I have added a clam and I have since begun testing again. After a month of testing every few days, I have my alk at 8.2, calcium at 400, and mag at 1420. All testing is done using Salifert tests.

I have been adding two more dosing times to the Reef Fusion 1, but I have not been able to get up the calcium to a more acceptable level. Right now I am adding 1 ml of RF 1 16 times / day. I have the RF 2 set at 1 ml 10 times per day.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Gator0930 · Jun 4, 2018

Calcium and all are both opposing of each other. Both parameters play off each other. You can not change one without changing the other. I did a lot of research about this, and now i dose both and have raised my calcium.

Larry L · Jun 4, 2018

If your levels are staying stable with your current dosing routine (i.e. amount dosed = consumption), you can just add some calcium supplement independently to boost the baseline to up to where you want it (either the Reef Fusion 1, or something like Kent Turbo Calcium, Seachem Reef Calcium, etc.).

Dennis McGrath · Jun 4, 2018

Following... Does anyone have opinions on Seachem Reef Complete and Seachem Reef Plus ?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Just adding more calcium in a one time boost should do the trick. Manually add enough to boost to your target level, then continue dosing.

Are you doing water changes? What salt mix?

Do you know (by measurement, either of dosing rate or reservoir depletion rate measurement) that the calcium doser is not just adding less volume per day than the alk doser?

FWIW, the Reef Fusion is not designed properly for 1:1 dosing, but it actually has too much calcium relativ eto alkalintiy for exact 1:1 dosing (which obviously is not causing your problem):

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...y-alk-calcium-balanced-for-1-1-dosing.352635/

Dom · Jun 5, 2018

Goby-won said:
I have been adding two more dosing times to the Reef Fusion 1, but I have not been able to get up the calcium to a more acceptable level. Right now I am adding 1 ml of RF 1 16 times / day. I have the RF 2 set at 1 ml 10 times per day.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

What's your salinity?

As I understand it (someone please correct me if I am wrong), there is a relationship between salinity and calcium. Your max calcium is limited by salinity.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Dom said:
What's your salinity?

As I understand it (someone please correct me if I am wrong), there is a relationship between salinity and calcium. Your max calcium is limited by salinity.

No, that's not generally the case.

If you raise salinity by adding more salt mix, everything, including calcium rises.

But you can pretty much boost calcium to any reasonable level at any reasonable salinity.

Goby-won · Jun 5, 2018

Salinity is 1.025-1.026

Someone else posted that I have to use both RF 1&2 in proportion. If I read the bottles - RF1 says it increases calcium and RF2 increase alkalinity. I do not want to increase my alkalinity as I like it where it is.

I just may do nothing - things are going so well (knock on my head) that I don’t need everything wiped out due to wanting something I may not really need.

Dom · Jun 5, 2018

Goby-won said:
Salinity is 1.025-1.026

Someone else posted that I have to use both RF 1&2 in proportion. If I read the bottles - RF1 says it increases calcium and RF2 increase alkalinity. I do not want to increase my alkalinity as I like it where it is.

I just may do nothing - things are going so well (knock on my head) that I don’t need everything wiped out due to wanting something I may not really need.

I understand that when you dose calcium, it drives down your alkalinity. That's why you have to dose to bring up your alk while dosing calcium.

Dom · Jun 5, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
No, that's not generally the case.

If you raise salinity by adding more salt mix, everything, including calcium rises.

But you can pretty much boost calcium to any reasonable level at any reasonable salinity.

Well... I have other questions, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Dom said:
I understand that when you dose calcium, it drives down your alkalinity. That's why you have to dose to bring up your alk while dosing calcium.

That is not correct, unless you massively overdose calcium.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Goby-won said:
Salinity is 1.025-1.026

Someone else posted that I have to use both RF 1&2 in proportion. If I read the bottles - RF1 says it increases calcium and RF2 increase alkalinity. I do not want to increase my alkalinity as I like it where it is.

I just may do nothing - things are going so well (knock on my head) that I don’t need everything wiped out due to wanting something I may not really need.

When making a one time correction, you would very rarely use them proportionally. Using just one is fine.

Dom · Jun 5, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
When making a one time correction, you would very rarely use them proportionally. Using just one is fine.

I was beginning to believe that I had a basic handle on reef chemistry. Apparently not. Frustrating.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Dom said:
I was beginning to believe that I had a basic handle on reef chemistry. Apparently not. Frustrating.

Sorry[emoji23]

Your conclusion is the logical result of a poor analogy that has a lot of believers among reefers: that calcium and alkalinity are like marbles in a bowl, add more of one and there’s less space for the other type.

That isn’t not a correct conclusion and is the main reason I don’t like folks using that analogy, despite there being a small kernel of truth at the core of it. [emoji3]

Goby-won · Jun 5, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Just adding more calcium in a one time boost should do the trick. Manually add enough to boost to your target level, then continue dosing.

Are you doing water changes? What salt mix?

Do you know (by measurement, either of dosing rate or reservoir depletion rate measurement) that the calcium doser is not just adding less volume per day than the alk doser?

FWIW, the Reef Fusion is not designed properly for 1:1 dosing, but it actually has too much calcium relativ eto alkalintiy for exact 1:1 dosing (which obviously is not causing your problem):

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...y-alk-calcium-balanced-for-1-1-dosing.352635/

@Randy Holmes-Farley I just to look at my thread (I wasn’t getting notifications of all answers). I do between 20 gallons every two weeks on my 120G DT + 40G sump. I estimate this is approximately 10-15% change using Reef Crystals (reefing on a budget).

I just recalibrated my doser. Everything was in line.

I think I will just stay the course. There is too much math/chemistry involved here. That’s why I am only a Biologist. Maybe I’ll have my polymer chemist boss look at your thread link and see if he can explain it to me in “lowly biologist terms”

Thanks for trying to help.

srad750c · Jun 7, 2018

I dose RF 6 times a day with larger doses. If I need to raise Ca, I use SC Reef Advantage calcium. Alkalinity I use Reef Builder. Use small amounts 24 hours apart, check 8 hours after doses.