calcium reactor vs. dosing

[Craig Skinner]

Hi all!

In the planning stages of a new custom tank build and need advice.
Is a calcium reactor necessary if you plan on using a dosing pump system?

My tank will be a 150 gallon, + 40 gallon sump system.

Opinions/facts needed!

Craig...

 

[3mm3]

What type of corals and how thick do you plan on them getting? A packed coral tank with sps and lps id go with the calcium reactor.
If you have the dosing system then you wouldn't need the reactor though.

 

[CastAway]

^^ +1 ^^

In the end, with a ca reactor, you might end up benefitting from a doser anyway; perhaps Mg, kalk, or both.

I suspect a reactor is more cost effective, and, I think there may be some benefit with respect to consistency in the ratio of alk to ca provided.

 

[Craig Skinner]

What type of corals and how thick do you plan on them getting? A packed coral tank with sps and lps id go with the calcium reactor.
If you have the dosing system then you wouldn't need the reactor though.[/QUOTE

^^ +1 ^^

In the end, with a ca reactor, you might end up benefitting from a doser anyway; perhaps Mg, kalk, or both.

I suspect a reactor is more cost effective, and, I think there may be some benefit with respect to consistency in the ratio of alk to ca provided.

I plan on medium stocked sps, lps and light fish load over time. I've read where reefers are using both.

Just trying to decide which way to go, I'm in research mode and have so much to learn!

Thanks guys for the input!

Craig...

 

[Craig Skinner]

Thanks for the input guys!

Still researching and a bit confused!

Craig...

 

[ndrwater]

Gonna try and make this easy as possible.
A dosing pump makes life easier because you don't need to (potentially) dose the big 3, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium daily. Set it up, dial in your dose, and refill the reservoirs as needed.
A Calcium reactor oftentimes takes the place of a doser. Usually people with larger systems with a heavy Coral load will opt for a CArX
A Calcium reactor once properly tuned will need yearly maintenance, usually to replace the media, and refill the CO2 tank.
Pros for a doser:
Lower initial cost
Ease of setting/adjusting dose
Cons for a doser:
More often fiddling
refilling chemical reservoirs potentially often
Clogs in the outlets
Pros for a reactor:
Once dialed in very little maintenance
Ability to sustain a very high CA and ALK demand
Lower long term cost
Cons for a reactor:
MUCH higher initial cost
Can be fiddly
If improperly used, can cause a crash or kill ALL tank inhabitants

All that said, I personally am in process of switching from a doser to a reactor. As my corals have grown to very large colonies, my CA and ALK demand has grown exponentially as well. I am currently up to almost 400 MLS a day. Even buying in bulk, the cost is becoming prohibitive.
Switching to a reactor is a large cost up front, but long term I will be saving quite a bit of money.

 

[Craig Skinner]

Thanks ndrwater!
So maybe it is better to dos in a small system such as 100 gallons or less or to use in the beginning stages of a new reef tank until the demand of the inhabitants increases and making the dosing system less effective or economical?

Would dosing be a better system for a newbie reefer to learn with?

Craig...

 

[cumbeje]

Calcium reactor has more expensive initial cost but will save you money long term. Also, is a lot less labor intensive and once it is dialed in it keeps very stable ALK and calcium.

 

[3mm3]

My thoughts on dosing. I hated it. When demands for alk, cal and mag increased, dosing became a serious pain to keep solid stability. Plus with dosing you really needed to do constant tests for everything dosed. Weekly minimum to maintain stability, that was with mixed reef but heavy on sps side and clams. When I made the switch long ago after initial startup everything became so much easier to maintain. With the reactor (once dialed in) I literally have to test alk once a week, magnesium one to two times a month and calcium twice a year. Adjusting for increased alk demand all I do is make a minor adjustment in reactor ph while maintaining constant drip rate.

 

[Greybeard]

Would dosing be a better system for a newbie reefer to learn with?

You don't NEED either of them, but man, do they make things easier

A dosing pump is just that, a pump, or more commonly, 3 or 4 pumps. What you put in it can vary. The most common would be some sort of 2 part calc/alk additive, some of them come with trace elements... it varies. The same dosing pump could be used for Kalkwasser, or various trace/micro element dosing, I've even seen people use them to dose coral foods of one sort or another. With a 150g reef, I would expect to need a dosing pump of some sort, regardless of your method to maintain calc/alk. You'll find _something_ you want to dose on a schedule

I have a CoralBox doser, distributing Triton Core7 2 (4) part, in my 150g system. Over time, as my coral load increases, I expect this is going to become a rather considerable expense, but up front, it was reasonable.

A Calcium Reactor does the calc/alk maintenance job very well, but doesn't necessarily eliminate the dosing pump. There are elements required by your corals that are not supplied by a calcium reactor. I used one years ago. I'm hoping that they have become more reliable over time. The one I had, about 15 years ago, required constant maintenance and supervision. Left a bad taste... I suppose one day I'll want to look into one again, but I'm really dreading it. From the accounts I've read, aside from initial expense, they don't seem so bad to set up and maintain these days. But... they are expensive!

You missed a choice that I highly recommend for many new reefers... Kalkwasser. Presents a simple, hard to screw up method of maintaining calc/alk in your reef. Just keep kalkwasser mixed in your ATO reservoir, have a good (I recommend Tunze) ATO system, and you're done. By far the cheapest, easiest method of maintaining calc/alk in a reef. Unfortunately... this method will not keep up with a very heavy demand SPS dominant reef. If you're planning a mixed reef, with more soft/LPS corals than stix, then I highly recommend this method.

As mentioned by ndrwater, if something does go wrong with your Calcium reactor, it can easily take out the entire tank. Of course, that's true of a 2pt dosing system too... if your dosing pump sticks on, or the system starts siphoning 2pt into your tank, it can certainly take out the entire system. Even Kalkwasser... bad ATO system can flood your system, raising the pH into the stratosphere.

Still researching and a bit confused!

Keep up that research Confusion is normal, at this stage. Reefkeeping has a rather steep learning curve in the beginning. Don't panic. You'll figure out what you NEED to know pretty quick. That said, I started my first reef aquarium in 1982, and I'm still learning

 

[Breadman03]

Look into kalkwasser/limewater. It's a great way to get started.

 

[Dr.HarlemTutu]

I maintained a pretty large system back in the day with kalkwasser. I dripped the solution in at night. Kalkwasser has other beneficial features as well. Many people who use calcium reactors still use kalkwasser for it's positive effects on ph and ability to "burn off" phosphate. Moving forward I switched to ,actually added, 2 part. At first I hand dosed. When my system demands became larger I added dosing pumps for the 2 part. As my tanks grew, as well as my confidence and understanding, I added a calcium reactor. I think that was a good progression for me. Starting with the simple and working forward. Talk to people... do you have a good local fish store or a local club that holds meetings. Make friends with a more experienced reefer. Calcium reactors are amazing when used property but very powerful! I'd start with kalkwasser and dosing if I were you.

 

[dankreef]

You need a CA reactor hands down set and forget plus trace elements no water changes needed.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Hi all!

In the planning stages of a new custom tank build and need advice.
Is a calcium reactor necessary if you plan on using a dosing pump system?

My tank will be a 150 gallon, + 40 gallon sump system.

Opinions/facts needed!

Craig...

I've never used a calcium reactor, but both reactors and two-part are fine ways to go.

Personally I would start out with two-part. It's really easy and cheap to get started, especially if you dose manually until you get an idea of your tank's calcium and carbonate consumption rates. If you find yourself dosing a ton of two-part to maintain stability, you may want to consider a calcium reactor. But, there's no hard-and-fast rule that you must switch to a calcium reactor once you get to a certain tank volume or two-part consumption.

I like to keep things as simple as practically possible. I prefer just mixing up some sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, dialing in a doser, and calling it a day. This is, in fact, what I do. I drip a concentrated calcium hydroxide solution as well, but anything above that, I adjust with two-part. Calcium reactors are not too terribly complex, but for my tastes, it's a bit more complexity than I prefer. If I ever got to the point that I was dosing enough two-part to alter my aquarium's ionic balance significantly, I would consider a calcium reactor. However, per Randy's article on DIY two-part, that would require large daily doses: on a 50 gallon aquarium for example, you'd need to dose 41mL of both calcium and carbonate to significantly affect your salinity. Even then, your salinity would only rise 30% or so in a year. And that's assuming you do no water changes at all.

Just my opinion.

EDIT: Also, there have been a few posts that suggest that calcium reactors are set-it-and-forget-it, somehow implying that two-part is not capable of maintaining stable calcium and carbonate levels. This is categorically untrue. As I said, I have never used a calcium reactor, but I have no trouble at all keeping my calcium and carbonate stable with two part. If you use reliable dosing pumps and quality additives, it's very easy to dial-in your dose of two-part to maintain stability. I haven't had to change my calcium or carbonate doses in months.

 

[Greybeard]

Don't listen to anyone saying no ca reactor they haven't had one . You need a CA reactor hands down set and forget plus trace elements no water changes needed.

I don't see anyone saying no calcium reactor...

Man asked a question... "Would dosing be a better system for a newbie reefer to learn with?" We're trying to answer, offer some suggestions. Oh, and I have had a Calcium reactor... several, actually, over the last decade and a half. I just don't run one now.

 

[dankreef]

I changed it came off wrong . They are two separate systems learning on one has no coralation . Dosing doesn't compare and a malfunction can murder your tank . Ultimate would be ca reactor and doser pump for anything your tanks sucking down more than others .

 

[3mm3]

I maintained a pretty large system back in the day with kalkwasser. I dripped the solution in at night. Kalkwasser has other beneficial features as well. Many people who use calcium reactors still use kalkwasser for it's positive effects on ph and ability to "burn off" phosphate. Moving forward I switched to ,actually added, 2 part. At first I hand dosed. When my system demands became larger I added dosing pumps for the 2 part. As my tanks grew, as well as my confidence and understanding, I added a calcium reactor. I think that was a good progression for me. Starting with the simple and working forward. Talk to people... do you have a good local fish store or a local club that holds meetings. Make friends with a more experienced reefer. Calcium reactors are amazing when used property but very powerful! I'd start with kalkwasser and dosing if I were you.

Great point. On my tank I use both a kalwasser reactor and a calcium reactor. The kalk reactor is set to stir only once a day, and set to top off only at night.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I changed it came off wrong . They are two separate systems learning on one has no coralation . Dosing doesn't compare and a malfunction can murder your tank .

This is an unfair categorization to make. There is nothing inherently dangerous about dosing CaCl2 and sodium bicarbonate as opposed to dissolving coral skeletons. Any equipment failure can cause a tank crash. You need to be sure your equipment is in working order regardless of how you choose to supplement.

If you prefer to use a calcium reactor, that's fine. You should use what you like and what works best for you and your tank. But every situation is different, and everyone has their preferences.

 

[Greybeard]

This is an unfair categorization to make. There is nothing inherently dangerous about dosing CaCl2 and sodium bicarbonate as opposed to dissolving coral skeletons. Any equipment failure can cause a tank crash. You need to be sure your equipment is in working order regardless of how you choose to supplement.

If you prefer to use a calcium reactor, that's fine. You should use what you like and what works best for you and your tank. But every situation is different, and everyone has their preferences.

Amen. The motto of the reefing community should be 'there is no one, true way'.

I mentioned, in my long winded post, that 2pt, Calc Reactor, or even Kalkwasser can crash a tank, if something goes wrong. Very true. A calc reactor can crash pH, Kalkwasser can raise it through the roof... honestly, I'm not sure what all would happen if you siphoned a reservoir full of whatever you're dosing with your 2pt system into your tank, but it wouldn't be good! It's not unique to this particular tank requirement either... many tanks have been wiped out due to failure of a $20 heater.

Plan for failure. A pH probe and an alarm when it runs out of tolerance can go a long way towards ensuring your tanks health. With a Calc reactor, AFAIC, it's a necessity.

 

[CastAway]

As a reactor user, agreed on points above; they do require regular maintenance/observation, daily, and can be finicky. The media size, bubble rate, internal pH, throughput, circulation, there are lots of variables. They do drive the system pH down. These are facts.

But, at the water volume you're planning, the initial investment is probably justified. I run a 210g system and employed a reactor almost immediately. I had some sand clumping initially, but once there was some increased demand for ca/alk, I was very glad to have it.

Either way, no wrong decisions really. Employing either system will provide much learning. Fun stuff!

[Edit: IMO, a calcium reactor will in no way whatsoever eliminate, or even reduce, the need and/or benefit of water changes, as was mentioned.]