Calling All Electricians

patsheridan · May 18, 2017

My 60+ year old house has an electrical system that is not grounded. I would like to protect my tank with some ground fault interruption, and am wondering:

If I pound a copper ground stake into the ground and run a wire from the stake to a j-box, and then run a circuit thru the j-box and add the ground to the circuit and then down to the tank area to a GFCI receptacle, will I have protection?

I'm a General Contractor, so I have some idea of what is going on, but I am certainly no electrician. I've attached a pic of my panel.

Katrina71 · May 18, 2017

@Brew12

Michael Cronmiller · May 18, 2017

By the looks of that old panel, I would be considering a service up grade my friend

Paul B · May 18, 2017

Where does that green (looks like a #1 or 2 ) cable go to that is under the panel? Are you sure that is not bolted to the back of the panel someplace? That would be a silly way to ground a panel but I have seen it done. If you are sure there is no ground I would add one with the ground stake. (unless you have a metal water main where you can attach it, if so, look at the water main and see if there is a ground wire on it.) That neutral is grounded at the pole or where ever it goes outside your house but that is not considered a panel ground. They may have added a ground wire to the panel outside your house in the meter pan. (also silly unless that is a code where you live)
If you add a ground cable (and you should) don't cut the cable at the J box. It is not supposed to be spliced so just bring it to your neutral bar.
I was a New York City electrician for 40 years and as far as I know, all panels in the US need a panel ground but I could be wrong about that as I have been retired for 10 years.
My house is older than that and my panel looks exactly the same, only with a ground.

alton · May 18, 2017

patsheridan said:
If I pound a copper ground stake into the ground and run a wire from the stake to a j-box, and then run a circuit thru the j-box and add the ground to the circuit and then down to the tank area to a GFCI receptacle, will I have protection?

No I believe you cannot do this, you would have to start at your service, make sure it is grounded (probably is) and then pull in a new feeder from there to a replacement panel for your old one shown. But that becomes a slippery slope because your local codes may require you to now use Arc Fault breakers which may not work with your old wiring, so you will have to replace all of that. Since you are in construction you know once you tear into a wall you have just opened a can of worms that continues to grow. Easy answer add a GFCI receptacle and mark it with a sticker that comes in the GFCI box that states "No Equipment Ground". If you are worried about safety use all low voltage equipment in your tank.

Brew12 · May 18, 2017

Paul B said:
Where does that green (looks like a #1 or 2 ) cable go to that is under the panel? Are you sure that is not bolted to the back of the panel someplace? That would be a silly way to ground a panel but I have seen it done. If you are sure there is no ground I would add one with the ground stake. (unless you have a metal water main where you can attach it, if so, look at the water main and see if there is a ground wire on it.) That neutral is grounded at the pole or where ever it goes outside your house but that is not considered a panel ground. They may have added a ground wire to the panel outside your house in the meter pan. (also silly unless that is a code where you live)
If you add a ground cable (and you should) don't cut the cable at the J box. It is not supposed to be spliced so just bring it to your neutral bar.
I was a New York City electrician for 40 years and as far as I know, all panels in the US need a panel ground but I could be wrong about that as I have been retired for 10 years.
My house is older than that and my panel looks exactly the same, only with a ground.

+1 on all of this. Great advice.

alton said:
Easy answer add a GFCI receptacle and mark it with a sticker that comes in the GFCI box that states "No Equipment Ground".

This is also an option. You couldn't run a ground probe without the ground being brought to the receptacle but you can still use a GFCI. If any current goes through you instead of the intended wiring path the GFCI will still trip.