Calling Kessil 360W users- color & intensity?

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Yeah I guess that was my question to you as the resident expert on lighting and all things related to it, including measuring it. The numbers on the charts just seemed off, but then again, I can't tell the clarity of the water. What I meant by factor of 10 is that PAR went from 1100 to 100 in a matter of 8"-12", which seemed strange, so I was trying to find out which of these is more likely:

1. Are there certain lights that have terrible penetration into the water column? Yes. And some have BAD reflectors(MH) We do know focused beam leds can be spotlights.
2. Was that because of turbid water and I just couldn't tell? maybe
3. Was that because of user error in measuring the light? Probably
Really? Wearing a white t-shirt will give a false reading on PAR? My other question was: LUX readings are more "stable" than PAR readings, correct? Or better put, less prone to user error? Or did I just dream that I heard that somewhere? Bigger ball so a larger sampling area.
White reflects light. so stand to close to the meter under bright light= more light. An orange or yellow shirt should do the same as its adding some sun color too. Look at lots of par charts and you see some of this on sand, dark rock etc. SO, Worst thing you can do for par is a black background. It absorbs light. whyte bounces it back in. SO in this case a lux meter can be fooled too...

OK, so this is where I get confused on the readings... So PAR readings for LED's will give different readings dependent on the mix of spectrum, correct? YES
I hope I am reading that right... So for example, I have two MH and three hydra 26's over one of my tanks, and if I was looking at someone else PAR readings for just the hydra's, I couldn't know exactly that I would be getting the same PAR readings, unless they provide their light settings along with PAR chart, correct? YES

So LED's are just a lot harder to get readings on, at least for PAR. But LUX readings don't have that problem correct? Reason I say that, and correct me if I am wrong, is that LUX doesn't take spectrum into account, just intensity, so a LUX meter, then doing the calculations with a factor of 60 will probably give more accurate PAR readings, esp. for a first time measurer like me for example. I'm trying to decide how I want to start measuring my lights, and not sure how to do it. With halides and LED's on one tank, and T5 and LED's on another tank, how do I measure most accurately? PAR with all lights on seems like a faulty way to measure, as I could get a lot of different numbers. LUX seems more accurate, just have to turn on only one of the light sources at a time, then add the calculated PAR values together, correct?YES basically. But if you stick a lux meter in there I think you have a LOT of light 40- 50,L Lux. Thats half of daylight, so I wouldn't worry. Unless you have a really deep tank and are trying to get 300 par on the sand. I recommend to anyone who has a PAR meter and wants to know light to have a lux meter too. lux is one measurement, PAR is two. THe single intensity observation is VERY interesting(and cheap)

Mixed lux par UGG. Here's how you'd do it, but its an estimate.http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/equipment

I just want to make sure to get it right, so I don't make decisions based on bad information because I'm new at this and also because I may have halides like the ones you describe.
Should I use a LUX meter and calculate or a PAR meter and deal with the potentially bad readings? See above, but, If you use a lux meter first(cheap) you will see increases and decreases in intensity IF the reflector or an LED spot light etc.

Now I know folks Get a bit upset if I say I don care that muck for kessils(Freddie), but I also dont like broccoli. Now Wehn I went to MACNA with my little meter I measeres the AP700. @12 it was a DEAD EVEN 35000 lux across the top of a 48x24 tank. I have since said it was brilliant and am directly responsible for several sales of them. its a neat light!

Our friend Jason2459 is doing some great work on Par meter comparison. He does say the seneye is really really good. Kinda silly need to fiddle with it and get it pointed right but....
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...-v2-vs-apex-pmk-vs-apogee-mq-510-full.292681/

OMG!
Salty,
Absolutely Great Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and response. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!!!

Freddie

Esage · Apr 12, 2017

squareriggersailor said:
@Esage I will check when I get home. I haven't settled on a height but since Kessil was so adamant about their recommended height of 12-24" I will probably heed their advice. I have been using the knobs but I will have the Spectral Controller on my front porch when I get home so I will be able to give you a better answer.

Thank you. I'm not sure you'll be able to get the light higher than 12" if you are using the gooseneck. I can only get to 10" high, if I want the light centered over the tank.

LetItReef · Apr 12, 2017

squareriggersailor said:
@Esage I will check when I get home. I haven't settled on a height but since Kessil was so adamant about their recommended height of 12-24" I will probably heed their advice. I have been using the knobs but I will have the Spectral Controller on my front porch when I get home so I will be able to give you a better answer.

I just measured the height and Im at about 12" from the waterline. Probably raise 1-2" more but will see how it goes first with the 12".

LetItReef · Apr 12, 2017

@Esage i used to have the gooseneck and yes cant raise that much higher.
The mount is so much better imo.

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

LetItReef said:
@Esage The mount is so much better imo.

That's awesome.

Is it a Kessil mount?

Midrats · Apr 12, 2017

Esage said:
Thank you. I'm not sure you'll be able to get the light higher than 12" if you are using the gooseneck. I can only get to 10" high, if I want the light centered over the tank.

I have the other Kessil mount as pictured above so I could get it to about 15" maybe.

nervousmonkey · Apr 12, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Yeah I guess that was my question to you as the resident expert on lighting and all things related to it, including measuring it. The numbers on the charts just seemed off, but then again, I can't tell the clarity of the water. What I meant by factor of 10 is that PAR went from 1100 to 100 in a matter of 8"-12", which seemed strange, so I was trying to find out which of these is more likely:

1. Are there certain lights that have terrible penetration into the water column? Yes. And some have BAD reflectors(MH) We do know focused beam leds can be spotlights.
2. Was that because of turbid water and I just couldn't tell? maybe
3. Was that because of user error in measuring the light? Probably
Really? Wearing a white t-shirt will give a false reading on PAR? My other question was: LUX readings are more "stable" than PAR readings, correct? Or better put, less prone to user error? Or did I just dream that I heard that somewhere? Bigger ball so a larger sampling area.
White reflects light. so stand to close to the meter under bright light= more light. An orange or yellow shirt should do the same as its adding some sun color too. Look at lots of par charts and you see some of this on sand, dark rock etc. SO, Worst thing you can do for par is a black background. It absorbs light. whyte bounces it back in. SO in this case a lux meter can be fooled too...

OK, so this is where I get confused on the readings... So PAR readings for LED's will give different readings dependent on the mix of spectrum, correct? YES
I hope I am reading that right... So for example, I have two MH and three hydra 26's over one of my tanks, and if I was looking at someone else PAR readings for just the hydra's, I couldn't know exactly that I would be getting the same PAR readings, unless they provide their light settings along with PAR chart, correct? YES

So LED's are just a lot harder to get readings on, at least for PAR. But LUX readings don't have that problem correct? Reason I say that, and correct me if I am wrong, is that LUX doesn't take spectrum into account, just intensity, so a LUX meter, then doing the calculations with a factor of 60 will probably give more accurate PAR readings, esp. for a first time measurer like me for example. I'm trying to decide how I want to start measuring my lights, and not sure how to do it. With halides and LED's on one tank, and T5 and LED's on another tank, how do I measure most accurately? PAR with all lights on seems like a faulty way to measure, as I could get a lot of different numbers. LUX seems more accurate, just have to turn on only one of the light sources at a time, then add the calculated PAR values together, correct?YES basically. But if you stick a lux meter in there I think you have a LOT of light 40- 50,L Lux. Thats half of daylight, so I wouldn't worry. Unless you have a really deep tank and are trying to get 300 par on the sand. I recommend to anyone who has a PAR meter and wants to know light to have a lux meter too. lux is one measurement, PAR is two. THe single intensity observation is VERY interesting(and cheap)

Mixed lux par UGG. Here's how you'd do it, but its an estimate.http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/equipment

I just want to make sure to get it right, so I don't make decisions based on bad information because I'm new at this and also because I may have halides like the ones you describe.
Should I use a LUX meter and calculate or a PAR meter and deal with the potentially bad readings? See above, but, If you use a lux meter first(cheap) you will see increases and decreases in intensity IF the reflector or an LED spot light etc.

Now I know folks Get a bit upset if I say I don care that muck for kessils(Freddie), but I also dont like broccoli. Now Wehn I went to MACNA with my little meter I measeres the AP700. @12 it was a DEAD EVEN 35000 lux across the top of a 48x24 tank. I have since said it was brilliant and am directly responsible for several sales of them. its a neat light!

Our friend Jason2459 is doing some great work on Par meter comparison. He does say the seneye is really really good. Kinda silly need to fiddle with it and get it pointed right but....
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...-v2-vs-apex-pmk-vs-apogee-mq-510-full.292681/

Thank you for the answers Salty, that helped me more than you know!

saltyfilmfolks · Apr 12, 2017

GoVols said:
OMG!
Salty,
Absolutely Great Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and response. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!!!

Freddie

nervousmonkey said:
Thank you for the answers Salty, that helped me more than you know!

Thank gents. I like to think(too much).

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

@LetItReef @squareriggersailor
That's a really nice mount.

Looks like you can hide the wires inside the metal tubing.

LetItReef · Apr 12, 2017

Here's my settings. What do you think?

Midrats · Apr 12, 2017

GoVols said:
@LetItReef @squareriggersailor
That's a really nice mount.

Looks like you can hide the wires inside the metal tubing.

I must say, the thing's bombproof. The wires get routed through the tube and the tank mount is solid. It's very adjustable up and down, fore and aft.

Midrats · Apr 12, 2017

@LetItReef that looks good to me. Maybe I will try that when I hook up my new Spectral Controller tonight! Could this day go any slower, especially knowing UPS just dropped it off?

I talked to Michael Pan at Kessil again today and he once again strongly suggested a 12" height for the light. For the aforementioned reasons but also for the best color blending and the best looking light. All I can think about are mangroves now

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

squareriggersailor said:
I must say, the thing's bombproof. The wires get routed through the tube and the tank mount is solid. It's very adjustable up and down, fore and aft.

I went to Kessil's site. It looks like if you have the AP700, then you need to buy 2 of those mounts.
Is that correct?

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

squareriggersailor said:
Could this day go any slower, especially knowing UPS just dropped it off?

Lol!!!!!!!!!

Your going to love the controller and your knobs will do nothing once the controller is jacked in.

Midrats · Apr 12, 2017

GoVols said:
I went to Kessil's site. It looks like if you have the AP700, then you need to buy 2 of those mounts.
Is that correct?

Correct. I scoffed at the price a little but once I got it into my hands it's worth it. Psyched about the controller!

LetItReef · Apr 12, 2017

It will be so much nicer if they made the controller touch screen

GoVols · Apr 12, 2017

LetItReef said:
It will be so much nicer if they made the controller touch screen

Yeah,
lol, I kept wanting to push the screen instead of the buttons.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for starting this thread, Good Stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Esage · Apr 13, 2017

LetItReef said:
Here's my settings. What do you think?

Mines almost identical, but I max out at 35% color and 45 Intensity.

Are you getting 25K LUX at the 40% intensity?

izzyishh · Apr 13, 2017

Kessil lights did this enough said if you like LPS you will love the light

reef-rc · Apr 13, 2017

+++following

I am relatively new and like the A80 on the 13G nano so far. Based on my recent PAR readings I did first passed, the acans like them even @ < 150. I am looking to bump up the intensity with A360W-E shortly to get slightly more intensity and coverage while at the same time future proof my purchase to an extent in case of upgrades in the very near future.